- #296 of 3321
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Re: Question [callmedrfill]
by ljflx
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Jun 14, 2005 (6:39 pm)
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Replying to: callmedrfill (Jun 14, 2005 5:34 pm)
I couldn't possibly agree with you. Lexus has gotten rich in the most important market in the world. They are taken very seriously by MB, who is barely profitable right now. Just about everyone I know who drives an LS would have been in an MB S or E-class if Lexus wasn't around. You can't look at this as a world wide issue. Gaining or losing share in a market like the US can be the make or break on worldwide profitability. If your profits are hurt you seek all causes and you take them very seriously. Incremental profits that are lost from a market you once owned are a killer on any business.
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- #297 of 3321
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callmedrfill
by lexusguy
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Jun 14, 2005 (8:47 pm)
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" I'm sure the Germans don't see the LS as a direct competitor because of the price difference."
Haha! This isnt 1989. The LS may not be a threat to them in their home market, but here in the states, M-B definitely considers the LS as a competitor.
Just curious, can an anyone tell me the ratio of S500 4matics sold to RWD S models? I just didnt think there was big demand for AWD in this class.
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- #298 of 3321
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Mercedes doesn't seem to care
by callmedrfill
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Jun 15, 2005 (5:36 am)
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They will keep selling a V6 for $75k, even into the next generation. And a comparable S450 will be $90k+. So it hasn't become a better value against an LS.
The 7's ergonomics have gotten worst over the years as Audi and Lexus have raised the state of the art.
VW went over the LS' price by $10k without a thought.
The next LS should join them in the mid-60's, but it will bring plenty of market share with them.
DrFill
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- #299 of 3321
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Re: Mercedes doesn't seem to care [callmedrfill]
by ljflx
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Jun 15, 2005 (6:07 am)
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Replying to: callmedrfill (Jun 15, 2005 5:36 am)
Where are you getting your MB prices? The V8 S430 is in the $75K MSRP range right now and has been heavily discounted (I've seen them advertised at $65K with lease deals cheaper than an LS by a decent amount) plus 4-matic is a freebe throw-in on top of that if you are lucky enough to find a 4-matic. The V6 S350 is supposed to be about $10K less in MSRP if it is even here. If MB raises the price of an updated S450 to 90K where does the next gen S500 go to - $105K?? They can kiss their sales goodbye after 6 months with those prices.
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- #300 of 3321
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Re: Question [ljflx]
by aggie76
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Jun 15, 2005 (9:03 am)
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Replying to: ljflx (Jun 14, 2005 6:39 pm)
I am one of those who cross-shopped the LS vs. the E-class seriously (and a few others for the fun of it) and went with the LS just as you said. I would have gone MB but given the value, reliability & space for what I was willing to spend it was an easy ultimate decision to go with an LS last year. No regrets at all. 
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- #301 of 3321
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aggie76
by lexusguy
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Jun 15, 2005 (4:48 pm)
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CR has customer satisfaction ratings currently back to '97, and there's an LS400\430 in the top 5 every year up through 2004. It probably goes back further than that Im sure. People that own a LS tend to like it very much.
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- #302 of 3321
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Re: Mercedes doesn't seem to care [ljflx]
by merc1
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Jun 15, 2005 (9:52 pm)
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Replying to: ljflx (Jun 15, 2005 6:07 am)
Lots of Mercedes talk in here. The S350 is here and 4Matic S-Classes aren't hard to find. Though I doubt the new S450 will base at 90K, that is a bit much even for Mercedes.
M
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- #303 of 3321
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Re: aggie76 [lexusguy]
by aggie76
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Jun 16, 2005 (3:15 am)
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jun 15, 2005 4:48 pm)
Agree with the ratings background as I had a '98 GS300 before my LS430. Have got a business associate with an '04 E500 with numerous issues. Every time he visits me he makes at least one statement regreting his purchase of his MB. Dealer service is the #1 complaint he has and he knows the entire team by first name in their service dept. I just have to LOL.
Can't wait for more specifics and photos on the next generation LS - had planned to keep this one for 6-8 years but who knows, the bug may bite me hard.
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- #304 of 3321
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Haven't actually checked Benz MSRP lately
by callmedrfill
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Jun 16, 2005 (4:01 am)
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Not using transaction prices, as these vary WIDELY from place to place, and month to month.
Maybe the COMPARABLE V8 S is $85k. Autoweek reports that a V6 with comparable power to today's S430 is expected, than a S450 (see S500), than a S550 (check S600)
I would consider an LS COMPARABLE to a S with the $13k Luxury Pkg, which adds features that are also optional on the $85k S500. I would assume there is still a $20k difference in price for comparably equipped cars
I expect a Hybrid LS to run somewhere near the next S450 in price.
Do you expect Mercedes to raise prices on the S-Class significantly? In lieu of the current market condition, and their modest sales performance the last couple of years, anything over a modest increase would be a mistake.
$65k-90k should be Lexus' new ballpark.
DrFill
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- #305 of 3321
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Re: Haven't actually checked Benz MSRP lately [callmedrfill]
by ljflx
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Jun 16, 2005 (6:46 am)
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Replying to: callmedrfill (Jun 16, 2005 4:01 am)
The comparable MB S-class to a fully loaded ultra LS430 is the S430 right now. The S450 is its replacement and will probably be priced similarly to it which is $75-76K not $85K. I don't even think an S500 starts at $85K. The S350 is MB's attempt to bring a 6cyl engine back to this class. Right now put the few things on an S430 that are lacking vs an LS430 ultra and you end up at an MSRP of $78K vs $72K in the LS. Now you can add some more things on that S430 that Lexus doesn't offer right now and you can probably get to $90K. But it seems to me that you would logically take an S500 over that for reasons of common sense and better future resale value, not to mention the engine that really should be in the S-class as the base engine in the first place. The reality - at least when I drove them in 2001 is you needed an S-500 to match the LS430's power. The S430 just didn't cut it. Whether the move to a 7speed tranny changed that or not I don't know. I would expect next gen LS list prices to range from $65-74K for a gas LS430 ($62K if they maintain a non-nav car) and $75-80K for a hybrid. The big V10 or V12 equivalent hybrid with 500+HP LS will probably push to $100K.
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