Last post on Apr 07, 2012 at 12:14 PM
You are in the Lexus LS 460/460L
What is this discussion about?
Lexus LS 460, Sedan
#2330 of 3322 Re: LS 460 should be priced head-to-head with germans [nvbanker]
Aug 14, 2006 (3:29 pm)
Same for me nvbanker. Audi's there but it's irrelvant and I think most US lux buyers feel the same way. I'll always be a Lexus or MB buyer (I'd take my chances on reliability with the GL if I were SUV shopping today. I've read a lot about that SUV recently and while it still has the quirky nav and other things MB seems to have nailed that SUV in most of the key areas and supposedly it's a great ride with adequate handling) Lexus and MB have what makes a true lux car or SUV nailed. MB's problem is they've been there for awhile so improvements are like watching a mature tree grow and the overemphasis on styling, which is partially a byproduct of maturity may be too much. I saw an S550 on the road trailing an S500 old model today. The old car was far better looking to my eyes. Watching Lexus grow and improve is like watching a tree in early life grow, particularly as they evolve the LS from a US based car to a world wide car in 2007. Hence Lexus new features become more noticable. It's the same in any business. The new guy has more growth of product to show.
Lexus took a step toward a tighter ride in 2001 and will take a larger step in 2007. The euro suspension - which was much more obtainable in the 2001-3 model years - was an excellent handler and surpassed the base S-class in handling to me and I drove both many times. The story I get from my dealer is the Euro buyers shopping Lexus wanted the Euro mated to a longer wheel base car so maybe we'll start seeing it again now that a LWB car is here or maybe the new car will be a lot tighter and not need that suspension. I also noted that Lexus is making this LS600HL in a 209" frame which makes it the longest car in the segment by 4". Someone at my dealership has ridden in it and says the ride is stunning with excellent handling. Supposedly Lexus increased the size of the HL to squeeze out that dream ride. We'll see. I am really looking forward to that car but my wife is a little intimidated by the thought of car a foot longer than the current car.
Topspin - the initial LS had a $35K base but most models shipped here had options that put the car to $42-43K. The S at that time or just after Lexus came out was probably a $60-65K car.
#2331 of 3322 with LS and upcoming LX Lexus should improve its mix
Aug 14, 2006 (3:33 pm)
Lexus has to dramatically cut down on its low-end vehicle lines and go up-market with LS and other higher end models. it must improve its vehicle mix to become more top heavy.
I would say the vehicle lines should be
Sedan: IS, GS and LS (with racing versions for each, ex: IS 500). Price them head to head with 3,5 and 7-series.
SUV: RX, GX and LX (accelerate the new model introduction). Price them head to head with M-class, GL and Range Rover respectively.
Hard Top Coupe Convertible: Have SC move up to compete with SL and may be a "GC" to compete with SLK.
And remove all the stupid flab like ES 350 which is a blotch on entire Lexus line. besides ES is not relevant outside US.
If Lexus hopes to compete with BMW and Benz, it better get its priorities straight and close its ears to value propagandists.
#2334 of 3322 first comparison between LS and S550 is Out!!!!!
Aug 14, 2006 (3:44 pm)
here is the link. Enjoy the pictures, text and great video.
#2335 of 3322 Re: those who want value pricing can buy Lexus GS/IS or Acura RL [stevekilb
Aug 14, 2006 (3:49 pm)
I agree that the LS should be priced as high or even higher than the S class, because it is a better car in all respects. What you need to concentrate on is getting Mercedes to LOWER their prices accordingly.
Audi is also not on my radar screen.
#2336 of 3322 Re: with LS and upcoming LX Lexus should improve its mix [stevekilburn]
Aug 14, 2006 (4:01 pm)
"Lexus has to drastically cut down on it's low end vehicles", yeah right and BMW is going to stop making the 3 series and MB will stop making the C class,,,,None of this is going to happen. The Lexus E350 keeps getting better and is a fine entry point for the Lexus buyer. It is selling like hot cakes in the US, the worlds largest car market. All of the Lexus models will "swim up stream" in areas of performance, reliability, luxury, etc...It is happening across the sedan product line and I suspect the SUV's and SC are next to "swim up stream" with new models. Regardless Lexus will deliver more for less. This will never change when you compare Lexus prices to the Germans.
#2337 of 3322 Re: LS 460 is a new edition and must evolve into a premium-HELM [stevekilburn]
Aug 14, 2006 (4:15 pm)
You want them to stop producing a car that sells 90K units a year. That is a money machine for them. It'll never happen and many ES cars are now reaching $40-42K pricetags. Not bad for an entry point vehicle and higher than some of the competition. What a hole that would be in their model line-up. No chance on earth of this even being discussed at Lexus HQ (unless the person bringing it up wants to be fired on the spot) let alone happening.
Anyway this is a 2007 LS discussion, not an ES or even a Lexus brand discussion.
#2338 of 3322 Lexus pricing strategy = VALUE
Aug 14, 2006 (4:16 pm)
This discussion about value has occurred many times on this and the HELM forum. The bottom line is always the same.
Most realize that "value" is an inherent and important component of the Lexus marketing strategy for the U.S. market. It also provides an important platform from which to launch other markets. Without the American market, the rest of the global picture would have serious difficulties, from a number of business perspectives. I'm quite sure ljflx understands this, and many of the rest of you do.
In any event, it is quite surprising to see the praise for Lexus at a peak, and then on the other hand to slam them as if they do not know how to market their own cars. Rest assured, Lexus is quite brilliant at building quality vehicles that appeal to the masses, as well as marketing them.
To stay on topic for this forum, as many of you will appreciate . . . the top-of-the-line LS600hL will create a new upper tier for the LS, and that vehicle will bring upper-end pricing to the LS. This vehicle will represent an "exclusive" vehicle and will be essentially without any real competition, IMO. Thus the price premium for this vehicle can be substantiated.
Again, particularly for the upcoming standard LS, value will continue to be an essential marketing component.
#2339 of 3322 Re: LS 460 should be priced head-to-head with germans [ljflx]
Aug 14, 2006 (4:32 pm)
"Lexus took a step toward a tighter ride in 2001 and will take a larger step in 2007."
There is also a slight difference between the ride and handling of my 02 LS, and my 05 LS. The 05 is discernably tighter in the steering tolerance, though still weighted properly, and the ride is considerably more responsive. The tires and wheels were the same, exactly, so it has to be the car. The body style changed in 04, and I assume that's when the engineering change to the suspension also changed.