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Sedans Lexus LS 460/460L Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions
3321 messages, Last post on Apr 22, 2007 at 12:29 PM
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Replying to: uvawahoo (Aug 14, 2006 7:52 am) Well, I have to disagree. No question that the name and prestige of MB are part of the equation but it's not the whole thing by a long shot. I know several people who have gone the other way. That is, they have been devoted MB S drivers for years and finally got fed up with the problems of the last gen S Class. They moved to Lexus for a trouble free experience. That said, if the MB was as reliable, I think they would have been very happy to stay at MB because of things like the ride, driving dynamics, seat comfort, safety, solid feel of the car and of course prestige. I drove both before I decided and to me the S Class did drive better (for whatever you think it's worth, CR said that the last S was the best riding car they ever tested). The LS is a very traditional American riding car and there is a vast difference between that and the European type ride. I like my LS but if I were to go on a 4-5 hour drive, I would prefer the seats and the feel of control that an MB or BMW imparts. Remember, the status of the MB came about because of better quality at that time. When American cars were falling apart after 25K miles, the MB's were cruising around like tanks with 100K miles (as long as they were serviced) and on top of that they were very safe and solid, wouldn't rust out etc.. Prestige didn't just "happen" it was earned. |
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Replying to: nvbanker (Aug 13, 2006 8:48 pm) Actually yes, for 2 weeks. Then, I ordered one. But that was before I ran into the LS. After driving that, and noting that there were 13 defects in the new S-Class that needed fixing, and 0 in the Lexus, I cancelled the S and bought the LS the same day. I do freely admit, however, that the S-Class was more fun to drive, more comfortable, and more stylish, inside and out. OUCH! Your demo experience was shameful that a dealership would even permit so many things to be wrong with ANY demo. Pitiful, at the least, but I do not believe that it was completely representative of the more typical scenario that most folks would have experienced. And, in spite of the quality issues that plagued that demo, it is admireable of you to indicate that "the S-Class was more fun to drive, more comfortable, and more stylish, inside and out." TagMan |
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Replying to: uvawahoo (Aug 14, 2006 7:52 am) The LS competes really only against the S. BMW and Audi are too few and far between for Lexus to really get worked up about. If you consider the prestige of the S, that's what the LS aims for... And it should be incremental and that is the way the LS has gone about its business. Now comes the new LS series of sedans. This is a defining moment for Lexus. You may sometimes get a second chance to outdo your opponent, and when you do, grab it and don't let go. If the LS460/600hL fails to make a dent in the prestige quotient of the S-class, then the LS would have a long road to climb. Hopefully, Lexus will combine the beauty, features, and price of the new LS with a higher prestige and help lift the entire Lexus line with this new LS series. Ultimately, Lexus will need some sport-tuning for more "performance" in its cars to gain more traction and higher recognition among car fans. The future rests on the younger generation, and you must attract and keep them, and having a sporty look and feel and perspective will truly help in that direction.
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Replying to: oac (Aug 14, 2006 10:24 am) The higher tier of the upcoming LS600hL will boost the prestige factor a bit, IMO, since that particular vehicle will be so exclusive. In the final analysis, I expect the target audience for the LS to be about the same as it always has been, with exception of the LS600hL, which will successfully fish in the waters of the even more affluent. Sportiness and performance will most likely be delegated to the other Lexus lines, particularly the GS and IS, with exception of the HP ratings of the LS600hL, and the upcoming rumored "super-sedan".  TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Aug 14, 2006 11:28 am) True. However, I am refering to the LS as Lexus' benchmark sedan, and the brand's premium car. The LS defined the Lexus line of products back in 1989, and continues the fine tradition of leading the way for other Lexus products today. The new 2007/2008 LS series would be required to do the same - lift the boat of its siblings - and enhance the brand going into the future. Add some sort of performance-enhancement to these LS cars and you create another level of interest among those looking at the German brands. Associating performance to the luxury the LS provides will be a boost for establishing a younger, more upscale, uppity folks looking for a premium sedan that's got it all. Lexus will do well to look to the younger generation if its to remain a leader going into the future.
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Replying to: oac (Aug 14, 2006 11:38 am) The market demographics, would likely not change all that much, however. Even with the German cars, which are better known for improved performance characteristics, the demographics are still very similar. It seems that we agree that the benefit of enhancing the performance in the LS would be to grab more of the market share from those seeking German cars. However, that would only apply to those consumers interested in German cars for those performance characteristics, because it needs to be clear here that many, if not most, of those looking to the German cars, are actually just looking at the luxury, style, and prestige factors more often than the performance factors. The performance attributes are a plus to those German marques that some are interested in, but many are not. If most luxury buyers were interested in enhanced handling characteristics, then the LS would not sell so well, but the proof here is that the LS does sell very well, and thus the primary needs of many luxury buyers are fulfilled with the LS. TagMan
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Replying to: topspin628 (Aug 14, 2006 4:27 am) I do suspect that LExus will get ever closer to both BMW and Mercedes, probably Mercedes with the LS than ever before with this new version. The style is a hybrid between the S-Class nose and the 7 Series butt, with a Toyota smooth-over, but it's attractive. It'll probably drive more that way as well. Perhaps the perfect blend for a guy like me, who savors dependability and low maintenance costs. |
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Replying to: tagman (Aug 14, 2006 12:07 pm) Let's remember how the LS was launched and one of the main reasons it succeeded. They under cut the competition significantly. My memory may be a bit off on this but it seems to me that in 89-90 when it was launched, an LS was about 35K and I'm thinking that a comparable S class was about 50K. So someone had to see about 40% more in handling, prestige etc to justify the Benz. If price were no object then the Benz would win for most. As for now, I think that it's true that most people don't buy a lux car strictly for handling and driving dynamics but once you've enjoyed that and have become used to that type of driving, it may be a bit harder to switch to the soft "american" ride. With a huge price difference and the many problems MB has had re the quality, that "trade off" is easier and hence the great success of Lexus. If MB improves it's quality and if Lexus doesn't maintain the price differential, I think that MB will be back in a big way. The LS still needs to be a "value play" in my estimation or they need to close the gap on the driving experience. I hope they go with both and if so I'd be happy to test drive the new LS. If not, I think that my next ride after my LS lease is over will be a Euro car, MB, BMW or maybe even Audi. |
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Replying to: reality2 (Aug 13, 2006 8:24 pm) Yes, I have been to Europe and I see mostly tiny little "econo" audis, not the BIG ones...I couldn't care less about Europe, I just care about the car I will buy.
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Replying to: atlas7 (Aug 14, 2006 2:14 pm) |
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