Last post on Apr 07, 2012 at 12:14 PM
You are in the Lexus LS 460/460L
What is this discussion about?
Lexus LS 460, Sedan
#2284 of 3322 Re: LS 460 should be priced head-to-head with germans [stevekilburn]
Aug 11, 2006 (5:32 pm)
MSRP pricing is all about what is standard on the car. An LS 430 ultra at $72K is very similar to a loaded SWB A8 already. Lexus is entering a broad test pricing phase right now - when you think about it - and they are not about to leave any customers at the altar. So you'll see prices range from $65-67K for a moderately equipped SWB LS to around or just over $100K for the limo edition LS600HL.
I again called my dealer today and the pricing I just put up there was his estimate as there is nothing official from Lexus yet but there are some guidelines - as he put it. The news that is scaring me is the demand for the hybrid and what's more based on the discussions I had with him is that people are depositing the full blown limo edition of the 600HL, which they are telling people will run at $100-105K. So Lexus doesn't need to build stature by raising prices thru the roof. They can have their cake and eat it too with greater model variability, thereby keeping the $65K customer and attracting the $100K customer with the same model platform. That is really the second stage of stature anyway. Pricing follows and the tiered availability of models brings the higher prices. As for MSRP - compare features for price - not just price. An LS460 won't debut at $70K simply because it lacks the standard features of a $70K Audi and the others you are comparing it to. But a comparably equipped LS460 will surpass the A8 and you'll see plenty of $80K+ LS sales in LWB platform and of course in the even longer wheel based LS600HL. Then of course you have the LF-A coming and in 2009 you'll have a $150-170K super Lexus with a V12 hybrid. The 600HL when coupled with those two cars is plenty of stature and it's all coming to a theatre near you shortly.
#2285 of 3322 Re: LS 460 should be priced head-to-head with germans [ljflx]
Aug 11, 2006 (7:12 pm)
It is so great to have you back posting again. You had every right to get upset at some of those "ignoramuses". I also saw what one of the participants called the Lexus fans. That behavior is so childish that he should have been banned from these forums.
Getting to the subject at hand, do you have any idea about what sort of AWD the LS600hL will have (electrical or mechanical)? Also, could you explain the peculiarities of both to those of us that do not know the fine details? I would think that the LS600hL will be equipped with the most sophisticated features no matter what.
#2286 of 3322 Re: LS 460 should be priced head-to-head with germans [cyclone4]
Aug 11, 2006 (9:43 pm)
I'm not an AWD expert. I always have thought and read that the Audi system is the best AWD system there is. My old boss had an A8 and he put snows on every year. Audi's tires were so low profile (and he had 18" tires, not 19") that the AWD wasn't much help to him in the snow. But with blizzaks it was like an LX470. So I wouldn't worry anout the system and if Lexus is going the Audi route it's probably better. But I'd think more about the tires you get with AWD as you may still need snows. In NJ where I am we seem to get snow in feet more often than in inches. So many storms in the past 10 years have been 1-3 feet. In that type of snow you aren't driving with a car as you want that ground clearance an SUV gives you. So I may take my chances with whatever tires I get given the snow is more infrequent (though much heavier when it occurs) than in places like Chicago or other midwest cities.
Other board - It has degenerated so badly with some of the most immature posts I've read on Edmunds in 6 years of posting. I noted that even Pat commented about it when I caught up on some posts. It's becoming a Euro board and without Lexus participants it'll die off. I'll stick to this neighborhood and avoid the lunacy that goes on over there. But I've also got a lot of business activity going on right now so I'll be away at times.
Let's get a good handle on the pricing but I'll tell you what I am hearing is there is a lot of demand for the LS600HL and in the most expensive trim no less.
#2287 of 3322 Re: LS 460 should be priced head-to-head with germans [stevekilburn]
Aug 12, 2006 (5:05 am)
To ignore price is absurd, they are not separate issues. Price is one of the reasons Lexus has been so successful. Lexus has always delivered more for less. They shouldn't stray from that strategy as they build the global brand. Most Lexus buyers could give a hoot about "prestige"; otherwise they would have bought German. The new lexus products speak for themselves, more luxo, power, and advanced technology. The Lexus pricing model will always be less than the Germans, for a better or comparable automobile. Lexus strategy will be to differentiate their cars via, reliability, luxury, power, etc...THAT is how they will get prestige, not by artificially raising prices to be in line with German pricing. Lexus prices will increase, but remain less than Germans pricing for comparable.
#2288 of 3322 Re: LS 460 should be priced head-to-head with germans [atlas7]
Aug 12, 2006 (8:48 am)
I completely agree. I am a Toyota stockholder currently holding $200K+ worth of stock and have held at times $500K+ worth. So I write as an investor.
I think that Lexus should continue pricing sensibly. Their vehicles are superior to the equivalent German brands in quality, reliability, service and retained value. With the hybrids they are vastly superior in technology. It seems that the LS600h will be priced at a bargain level:I don't think Lexus will make money on them for a few years. Production is evidently going to be limited. I believe Lexus should concentrate on bulding up sales in Japan itself and in Europe and the Middle East. If that leads to a severely limited supply in the USA, so be it. The LS460 itself with its newly refined powerplant and an eight speed transmission and all the electronics that works (and is superior to the Eurocars) and justly priced will be a very big winner
#2290 of 3322 We have to look at the goal of the LS
Aug 12, 2006 (7:13 pm)
When the LS is redesigned, it is to have 380+HP for a reason.
It will have an 8-speed for a reason.
It will grow in size for a reason.
It will be better looking for a reason.
I don't see a reason for giving the new car all of these attributes, and then not raising prices accordingly.
This car is not being redesigned, it is being revolutionized!
Toyota may be ignoring every other HELM (except Mercedes) on the market! They have made a killing with the LS, and they will price the Next LS so they will continue to. Toyota will win either way they go.
But selling 40-50k LS a year cheapens the car, to a point. Everyone knows it's an incredible car, but it's not precious and few.
I want Lexus to actually reduce volume sales by increasing prices, and not go to 350-400k sales a year. Pricing the LS too low is counterproductive.
You get numbers, but lose respect. Pandering to value market is......pandering!
How is Lexus growing and evolving? You can't just start making $150k cars. You have to grow and evolve into that.
The LS is their best bridge to get where they want to go. If the 600hL is $100k, where does the LS460 stop? It would have to get to at least $85k!
I want to see the LS460L priced at $70-85k, an the 600 from $90k-105k.
#2291 of 3322 Re: We have to look at the goal of the LS [drfill]
Aug 12, 2006 (7:28 pm)
I'd say you are looking at 64-72K on the SWB, 74-82K on the LWB and 84-102K on the hybrid. You may still be able to get a 61-62K LS but it'll be a stripped car that likely will need a custom order. I don't see Lexus shipping over cars like that. In all cases a few specialized factory or dealer options may add 2-3K to each model variant. And I say they'll move 40-45K cars with the prices I noted and literally dominate the segment. The most LS cars sold since the late 90's were the 36K in 2002 and that came off a 22K figure the year before (when the 2001's started rolling in) and only 14K in the last 12 months of the model year 2000 car.
#2292 of 3322 Interesting
Aug 13, 2006 (9:17 am)
So you believe the LWB will start at near $75k (with a minimum of options found on lots)?
I guess I believe the rumor that the LS will start a shade over $60, but the ones found on lots will start right around $65k, and the LWB will approach $75k with a Ultra Lux option Pkg.
I think a 25-30k sales volume should be the sales target, and if it exceeds that, prices are too low, and need adjustment.
#2293 of 3322 Re: Interesting [drfill]
Aug 13, 2006 (9:57 am)
Well, you have finally convinced me. Let's raise the price on the new LS to around $150K. That would make it a rare bird indeed. Then by this time next year we wouldn't have to worry about it as Lexus would be out of business!!