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Coupes & Convertibles BMW M/M3/M6 2007 BMW M3 (E92)
203 messages, Last post on Apr 02, 2008 at 7:01 AM
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It's interesting, I've never considered the current 911 since I've always assumed it to be beyond my price range. Out of curiosity, I did some checking. As a reference, Carsdirect.com offers the following: - 06 911 coupe rwd, with NO options for 71.6k (asking price) - 06 M3 coupe with Premium and Competition package for $59.1k (MSRP), the 07/08? M3 is expected to cost roughly 5k extra so figure $65k. I know of some BMW dealers who claim they will honor whatever the 07 M3 MSRP will be. To my surprise, a rock bottom base Porche might only cost roughly $5k more compared to the estimated 07 M3 price with sports and premium package. That's not too bad of a price difference at first glance. Comparable! Wonder how the 07 M3 will fare in performance against the current base, yet legendary 911 rwd coupe. I also wonder how crude, in terms of comfort, a base 06 911 is compared to the up and coming 07 M3. I've never test driven a Porche. I know that Porche just came out with an 07 911 Turbo which goes for over $120k. That car will remain always, in my dreams. However, I can still ?realistically? wonder if there will be an 07 911 base model coming soon. That might make for another interesting (performance/price/comfort) comparison to the 07 M3? In terms of looks, the world admired aerodynamic body style of the 911 is the more beautiful (IMHO) and yet, its more or less static style over the years can be a bit bland with the wrong colors. In contrast, the up-coming M3 will boast a new body style similar to the current 06 3-series (lovely with the sports rims). I'd expect the new 07 M3 to be not as artistic as the 911's figure, but Newer looking, nevertheless. hmm, I'm thinking way too much about this stuff.. Joseph San Diego
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Replying to: jmaroun (Aug 22, 2006 6:51 pm) Comparing (speculatively) the 2007 911 to 2007 M3: Price: the 911 will be more, but how much needs to be determined. I got a significant discount on my 911S Cab last fall. When I had previously shopped M3's there was much less negotiating willingness on DC area dealers. The downside is that Porsche option lists are a mile long. If you can put aside the temptation to load it with do-dads, a base 911 should be competitive. But keep the $920 sport chrono box checked. It increases the throttle response of the 911 to the point of feeling like you've got 30 extra horsepower. Function: The 911 has rear seats that work great for up to 100+/- miles for my two kids (8 & 11). That's it. Small front trunk. No spare tire. The M3 is more versitile, albeit not enough for me to get rid of my sedan (TL). As far as "harshness" and drivability, my 911 has logged 9,000 miles over 11 months, my TL less than 3,000 during that time, mostly when I needed the added capacity. And I'm a hair short of 50, so my tolerance for getting beat up is lower than it was 20 years ago. That should tell you something. Form: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it's hard for me not to look at the 911 and smile. The interior refinements that came in 2005 with the 997 model make it a much nicer interior as well. It looks like a purposeful sports car. BMW went in the wrong direction in my opinion with their interior design and i-Drive. I personally like the interior of the previous M5 to the new one. Hopefully, the new M3 will be better in that department. Performance: The M3 drives like a coupe. Arguably the best coupe in the world. But it's not a sports car. The 911 is, in spite of those little rear seats. Acceleration should be comparable. Handling and cornering favors the sports car 911, if not in absolute numbers, certainly in subjective feel. I'm a fan of the 911. But it's not for everyone. Good luck.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 24, 2006 6:29 am) I always want to ask a Porsche owner on Porsche's reliability record. Aside from it is from car to car even from same manufacturer, how reliable is your 911, and how does the upkeep and repair cost of 911 compare to you TL? I got the impression that 911 has bulletproof quality 
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Replying to: proe (Aug 24, 2006 11:01 am) I'm probably going to break down next month and have a one year, 10,000 mile oil change and check-up done just for my own peace of mind and anal retentiveness. But, if you can believe this, the 997's first scheduled service is not until 2 years or 20,000 miles. This is my first Porsche (first non-Japanese car, in fact) and I admit I was a little nervous. But after doing my research, I found that most owners of 911's had few, if any problems. And, after getting the Cayenne bugs worked out over the last couple years, Porsche managed to steal the #1 spot on JD Powers Initial Quality Survey from Lexus. I can see why. Our TL and MDX are fine low maintenance vehicles, as one would expect from Acura. But my former Honda S2000 beat them both for fit and finish and build quality, IMO. It was hand built in Japan and probably qualifies for the most fun, with the least worry you could have in any car. Not a 911 S Cab, but a hell of a car for a third the price. |
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I was talking to a friend of mine about the idea of getting a base Porche instead of the up-coming M3. His reply, "Isn't a Porche more of an expensive rally car?", and suggested a comparison of the 911 to the WRX or STI would be more logical. The M3 is a true four door sports sedan that is very track worthy. The 911 is a pure-bread race car. For me, I'd like my car to be qualified to do the following: - take to the track - beat almost anything on the street - look really cool!! head turner - take a couple friends to the club on a Saturday night - take a hot date out to dinner on a Week night - look respectable driving to a wedding - comfortably take my mother out to dinner - fit a mid-sized surf board in my car on the way to Delmar - put a cooler in the trunk for beers after surfing - fit all the groceries in my trunk after going to Costco Ideally, I'd be able to do these things in my car. Not being rich nor married, I suppose practicality is important. I suspect the Porchce would struggle with some of the above tasks.. Joseph San Diego
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Replying to: jmaroun (Aug 26, 2006 10:48 am) Your friend needs to check into drug re-hab. And I'd say the same thing if he compared the M3 to those boy-racers, (which some folks do, since all three are two door 4 passenger coupes, not sports cars). On your "qualifications" list, here's how I would rate the 911: - take to the track: No problem. - beat almost anything on the street: Porsche conservatively rates the 911S at 0-60 in 4.6. It's been tested at 3.9 to 4.2 by the car magazines. I think that qualifies. And when you throw in twisties, you have to go into Ferrari territory to match or beat it. - look really cool / head turner: Well, it's got a "bonnet" not a trunk. And it has the engine in the back. That's "cool" according to my 8 year old daughter, her friends, and their dads. - take a couple of friends to the club on a Saturday night: One no problem, two can work if they are women (or short guys) with a combined height of less than about 10'8" or so. And the club isn't too far away. But if all three are 6' plus, one will be in need of several drinks upon arrival. - take a hot date out to dinner on a week night: Perfect. I average one or two a week with my wife and kids. - look respectable driving to a wedding: careful, the bride may ditch the groom when she sees your car. - comfortably take my mother out to dinner: mine is 88. She can get in and out of the 911 easier than our MDX. - fit a mid size surf board...: I don't surf, but that sounds like a problem. However, I can take a friend and two sets of golf bags in the back with the jump seats down. - Put a cooler in the trunk for beers....: You don't think we golf sober, do you? - fit all my groceries in the trunk after going to Costco: My wife is the Costco freak, but I've filled the bonnet with 3-4 bags and the rest go in the rear seat (I have a Cab, that makes it easier to load). There is no doubt that although the 911 can satisfy most of your requirements, the M3 would do the practical ones a little easier. But the 911 is a sports car and the performance is world class, especially the "S" model with the 30 extra horsepower and standard adjustable suspension. I tend to be a "substance" guy and think the M3 is a tremendous car. But I've heard others criticize the M3 because "everywhere you turn, there goes another 3 series". Not an issue for me, but from some of your requirements, you might prefer the distinctive image and appearance of the 911 over the M3. One thing not on your list of requirments is "fit and finish". The build quality and attention to detail on a 911 is extraordinary. After nearly a year and 8,800 miles, I still sit in my 911 (997) for about 30 seconds after I turn the engine off, looking at the interior and wondering what the heck they drive in heaven? And if you can get out and walk away from a 911 without looking back at least once, you are a better man than me. You really can't go wrong with either the M3 or 911. And they have absolutely nothing in common with those other cars your friend mentioned.
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I'm looking at a 2006 M3 convertible that the sales manager built and drove. It has 1,800 miles on it. It is silver grey w/ the awesome cinnamon leather (this combo was special order; it is not a combo in the catalog). It a 6-speed with cold package, lumbar, xenon, hk sound and 19" M wheels. I am having his service dept add Bluetooth (please tell me this is possible as a non-factory ordered item and with a car that does not have nav). MSRP is $63,045. I have him down to $58,000 (I believe invoice is $57,700). Lease is going to be $790/month (that was my offer or walk), 15k miles per year with $5,000 due at inception (I know... don't put money down but I always have and will do so on this one), and they have to add Bluetooth. They seem very motivated to sell it as summer is coming to an end, and it is a very lightly used demo (1,800 miles). Good deal???
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Replying to: brodsky (Sep 02, 2006 10:18 am) I would think you could do better on a used/demo M3, with 1,800 miles on it. At least in our area, September/October marks the end of convertible selling season and you are buying the tail end of the current M3 model. Not to mention that proper break in is extremely important with M3's. How many test drives were accumulated in those 1,800 miles? If it were me, I'd write them a check for $53,500 and dare them to rip it up. Last September, I did something similar on a 2005 911S Cab. I got $10k off on a brand new car, newly intorduced model, that just happened to be a late arriving 2005 instead of an identical $2,400 more expensive 2006. The fact that several local dealers told me the most they had ever discounted the 911 was $1,000 didn't dissuade me from trying - and it worked. Good luck.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Sep 05, 2006 3:30 am) What does "proper break in" on an M3 entail?
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Replying to: brodsky (Sep 09, 2006 3:21 pm) Pretty much the same thing that is required/recommended on my Porsche 911 or former Honda S2000. Namely, don't exceed certain RPM's (4,200 in the case of the 911, with a 7,200 rpm redline), don't drive the car for short distances that doesn't give the engine oil time to fully heat up and the seals, gaskets and other engine parts time to fully expand and then contract (i.e. should be driven 15-20 minutes), avoid hard accelertion when the engine isn't warm (and still keep within aforementioned rpms), don't use cruise control and vary engine speeds on highway trips, etc. The average Lexus, Toyota and GM engine doesn't require much care during break in. But high performance engines like the M3 do. And that has always been a concern of mine when I have considered used cars or worse, demos. I just have difficulty trusting that a car like the M3 has been test driven in a way that conforms to the above recommendations. When I was shopping for a Honda S2000 several years ago, a stupid salesperson threw me the keys to a brand new car and said 'let it rip". The S2000 is NOT supposed to be V-teched (exceeding 5,500 rpm) during break in and the long term performance of the car is noticably affected if it has been. So even "new" S2000's with 40-50+ miles on the odometer became off-limits for me. If the M3 you are considering was actually the personal car of the dealer, I would ask him to give you written assurance that the car was properly broken in. If I'm not mistaken, there is even a way on the M3 to download info from the engine computers as to the maximum RPM's the engine has been run at and for how long. Ask him to give you that report. My local BMW dealer refused to replace a blown engine under warranty on an M3 that had been abused during break in. Bottom line, I would not buy this car - or any "used" performance car - at a price that wasn't substantially below what I could get a new one for. I'd rather sleep at night knowing I properly broke the car in than wondering. Since you'd be leasing, maybe it's not as big a deal for you. |
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