Last post on Dec 14, 2011 at 6:31 AM
You are in the Toyota Corolla
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Corolla, Sedan
#1989 of 3103 Re: Major Yawn (disappointment) [mcmanus]
Jan 07, 2008 (8:24 am)
We've waited how many years for this? ...ONE
- 200 lbs of safety features .. these will be mandatory in every vehicle on the road in 3 yrs.
- worse steering .. personal perceptions, we will all have to judge for ourselves
- new (unknown to the U.S.) engine with mild performance upgrade .. Incorrect. This is the same 1.8L that currently is in the xD. If you haven't driven one then it's an entirely different experience. The current Corolla is loud and harsh. The xD is a lot smoother/quieter.
- better fitting for driver, but wider car ... better stability
- higher street prices ... see below
- looks like it was designed more to fit into the Toyota lineup than to compete ... as has been said many times here before it competes in a different segment of the economy car market. It in fact owns the generic-economy-appliance-commuter subsegment.
Three year old Civic looks better and better. .. personal preference. I think the Civic is a knockoff of my Prius..
What we have here in this new vehicle is the quintessential low-priced, low-cost generic commuter vehicle for the high-volume mass market. It can be mildly upgraded in performance and it can add some upscale features not normally seen in vehicles of this class. It has no other aspirations other than to meet this demand and make tons and tons of money in the process. If it does so it will be a smash hit. It's timing couldn't be better either. $4 gas in the Spring? $4 - $5 next year? $6 - $7 in 5 yrs?
Taking a step back and looking at the specs in a different frame of reference. Consider the Camry. For the better part of the past 15 yrs the Camry has owned the No 1 ranking among autos. The Gen4 Camry ( 97-01 ) was the No 1 vehicle every year it was out. This new Gen10 Corolla is a Gen4 Camry - just shorter.
It's the same width
It's the same height
It's more powerful ( both new engines vs the 2.2L in the old Camry )
it's more fuel efficient ( both engines )
it has more safety features than that Camry ever had
it has more upscale features than that Camry ever had
and most importantly....
it costs less than that Camry did - even after 5-10 years of inflation
So the buyers coming to the Toyota lots now have essentially two Camry's to choose from both versions have been the most popular vehicle in the US for multiple years.
Here's the hook. A buyer coming in to trade his/her 99 or 2000 Camry looks at the new Camry and say's
'It's soo big and the price is waaay more than I spent in '99. I don't need all that room or all that power.'
'Would you like to buy your same 99 Camry with more features and better fuel economy ( fuel today is $3.75 per gal afterall ) but at a lower price than you spent in '99?'
#1990 of 3103 Re: Major Yawn (disappointment) [kdhspyder]
Jan 07, 2008 (10:59 am)
I agree with almost all of your points except when you say that the 2008 Camry is much more expensive than the 2000. Actually, the current Camry is more price competitive than its ever been. In 2000, you had to add RKE, ABS, Pwr Drivers seat, etc, whereas this is standard on the current LE. At the time, the 2000 Camry cost about $21K with those options. Equipped the same, the 2008 costs about $22K, far less than 8 year's inflation.
#1991 of 3103 Re: Major Yawn (disappointment) [alpha01]
Jan 07, 2008 (11:56 am)
I'm thinking more of the sticker shock perception of the buyers now that a lot of Camrys have far more available features than the Gen4's did. The LE was by far the most common purchase and just about all you could add were the features you noted and a Moonroof, sometimes aftermarket leather. $22,000 less discounts was a common transaction number
Now with the wider variety of trims and all the various options the stickers often run $25000 or even $29000. Yes an LE is still just around $22000, with more features, but IMO there are relatively few LEs for sale and more trims with higher prices giving the perception of 'WOW'.
Toyota has done a heck of a job making it's two key vehicles larger, more powerful, safer, more efficient and all at the same cost or less than 10 yrs ago.
#1992 of 3103 re: the new corolla
Jan 07, 2008 (1:41 pm)
I don't believe this is an all new from the ground redesign like most people expected, it is basically the same car with some important upgrades, but looking at corolla history the car is only all new every 10 years, you can tell by the fact that the wheelbase stays the same, the current trend is to increase wheelbase and either keeping the same total length or shortening it a bit, it is still an impressive package and way better than the 1998/2002 generation I own, ps. it is still my compact of choice.Let's just hope the quality doesn't suffer like it has with Camry , Avalon and Tundra
#1993 of 3103 re: the new corolla [toyoman3]
Jan 07, 2008 (3:47 pm)
Considering this car has been out for two years in other markets I don't think we have to worry about quality issues. Smart move by Toyota to bring this car here after two years of overseas "testing". I bet this becomes the most reliable Corolla ever.
#1994 of 3103 re: the new corolla [mackabee]
Jan 07, 2008 (6:56 pm)
I hope it doesn't have any first year issues as I am planning to buy one.
#1995 of 3103 Re: Major Yawn (disappointment) [mcmanus]
Jan 07, 2008 (8:22 pm)
What disappoints me about the new Corolla is that it is admittedly Toyota's defining car, thus arguably the most important vehicle in their wide lineup. It's been six years since a redesign. Yet with all that and Toyota's resources and engineering prowess, what do we get? A car that:
- has fewer standard safety features
- has fewer standard comfort/convenience features
- has questionable quality on the interior
- has less interior room
- has a less sophisticated suspension
- has an all new engine that gets just 1 mpg (EPA overall rating) better than a relatively ancient, iron-block design while putting out less power and torque
- and is more expensive
than one of its major rivals that will be out for a year and a half when the 2009 Corolla debuts in the U.S. What "extra" does the new Corolla give us? An optional, more powerful (and thirstier) engine, availability of a 5-speed AT on the highest (most expensive) trim line only (already available on competitors like Civic and Mazda3, with 6AT on the Rabbit/Jetta); and availability of Bluetooth (already available on competitors like the Versa and Sentra) and factory nav (already available on competitors like Civic and Mazda3).
At one time, not so long ago (like the '90s), the Corolla was one of the top cars in its segment, because it was actually one of the best cars in its segment. I feel the 2009 Corolla will continue the more recent trend where the Corolla continues to sell in big numbers in the U.S. because of reputation, general competence, and buyers who don't know any better. Make a decent car (even if someone other than Toyota makes it, e.g. Daihatsu), put a Toyota label on it, and it will sell.
#1996 of 3103 Re: Major Yawn (disappointment) [backy]
Jan 07, 2008 (8:31 pm)
I disagree on a couple of points. The 09 will have more standard safety features than any other generation Corolla. To wit: abs, side impact, side curtain airbags.
" Make a decent car (even if someone other than Toyota makes it, e.g. Daihatsu), put a Toyota label on it, and it will sell."
They already did. The original Scion xB or Toyota Bb is made by Daihatsu and so is the evolution of the Bb which we didn't get. It's also known as the Daihatsu Materia in other markets.
We keep Corolla was never meant to be an enthusiast car.
#1997 of 3103 Re: Major Yawn (disappointment) [mackabee]
Jan 07, 2008 (8:37 pm)
Actually, you didn't disagree with me on ANY of my points. I didn't make a point that the new Corolla has fewer safety features than any previous Corolla. But the new features it adds aren't anything special in its segment for 2009, and some of its competitors better it in that area. So, ho-hum on the safety features, and shame on Toyota for makings key safety features like ABS and side curtains so hard to get on the Corolla until now.
As for the 2nd point, you simply amplified the point I made, rather than disagreeing with it.
#1998 of 3103 Nav = No JBL and No Bluetooth
Jan 07, 2008 (8:56 pm)
I just found out Bluetooth comes with the JBL stereo and don't get the JBL stereo when you choose nav. So, you have to decides\d whether you want JBL and bluetooth handsfree OR navigation.
With no voice control to operate the nav while driving, a portable GPS makes more sense than bothering with the factory nav system and then giving up bluetooth and the upgraded stereo.