Last post on Nov 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM
You are in the Toyota Corolla
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Toyota Corolla, Sedan
#1775 of 3104 2009 corolla
Nov 10, 2007 (7:47 am)
I tested the 08 corolla the other day...not been in 1 for several years....ok but not competitive with the civic lx......at all....civic leases and sales are very competitive whereas here in FL you have the toyoguard and $700dealer fees...that is $1400 right off the top that is too much..much less all the other add-ons...I looked carefully at the 09 specs...bought an 08 civic and never looked back. Toyota is NOT at the edge the way it was back in 90's and early 2000's...disappointing since I think a lot of their products have been tops instead of just so-so like now....
#1776 of 3104 Re: 2009 corolla [dgecho1]
Nov 10, 2007 (9:10 am)
OK, to understand your post...you compared a 6 y.o. model with a new model and found the new model to be better. That sounds like a very logical conclusion to draw, goood job. However to counter your argument about the pricing, here in the Central Atlantic region there are no such charges and the Corolla is far, far, far lower than a Civic, as in not even a contest. Consider this: the Civic was brand spanking new with all the latest features last year when it debuted....and all this year the 'outdated' Corolla has outsold it and made more and more money.
We'll revisit the pricing when the new 09s arrive.
Count on this. The Corolla will outsell the Civic and make much much more money for the parent company. And in the end that's the only criteria that counts.
Everything else is just beauty pageantry hoopla.
#1777 of 3104 Toyota better improve the new Corolla quick, though.
Nov 10, 2007 (9:55 am)
I think Toyota was way too conservative in the new drivetrain for the 2009 Corolla. A 132 bhp engine with a 4AT transmission won't cut it against the 140 bhp engine with 5AT transmission found on all Honda Civic models.
Besides, Honda is now one model year away from doing their mid-model change (MMC) on the current Civic. Honda could easily offer a new 1.8-liter I-4 engine with the new Advanced VTEC valvetrain and a six-speed automatic, and that will make it even MORE desirable than the new Corolla. I hope Toyota comes to its senses and offers a Corolla sedan with the new 150 bhp Valvematic engine and a 5AT transmission to better compete against the upgraded Civic.
#1778 of 3104 Re: Toyota better improve the new Corolla quick, though. [raychuang00]
Nov 10, 2007 (10:12 am)
I doubt there will be any major powertrain changes on the 2009 Civic especially when the new Corolla isn't even matching what the Honda Civic has now. If they add stability control, bluetooth and a few other minor improvements to the 2009 Civic, they will be set until the full redesign in a few years..
#1779 of 3104 Re: My dissatisfaction with the new corolla [kdhspyder]
Nov 10, 2007 (10:53 am)
Toyota may lose the 12 enthusiasts but gain 12,000 others because the vehicle is priced right. In the end nothing matter except which vehicle makes more money. The rest is fanboi hoohaa and beauty contests. Just count the money at the end of the year and that's the winner.
Perhaps an automotive executive cares who sells the most at the end of the day, but as a buyer it means zilch to me. As a buyer, I want the most features and the highest quality in relation to the dollars I'm willing to pay.
American manufacturers thought nothing mattered except which vehicle makes more money for many years too. So they did the same thing you're advising to keep counting the money and declaring a winner. They followed your advice and now they're in the hole.
Car buyers don't change their buying habits as quickly as buyers of clothes or music. But as proven by the decline market share of the "Big 3", change they eventually will.
So sure Toyota can throw any old Corolla out on the lot and it will sell in the short term. But if they don't continue to offer a cutting edge product in terms of features and value, the money they may have counted in 2006 won't count for much in 2016.
#1780 of 3104 Re: My dissatisfaction with the new corolla [kdhspyder]
Nov 10, 2007 (10:58 am)
From the Canadian site it appears that all the options are available. I can't see them offering it in the North but not in the South. For what reason would they do this?
Again, the Canadian market is far different from the American market. The Canadian market is more similar to Europe in the popularity of the compact cars. Thus car manufacturers will are more likely to offer luxury items in a compact up there. Car manufacturers have been selling upgraded compacts in Canada for years. The Civic has had a leather option available there for example.
#1781 of 3104 Re: Toyota better improve the new Corolla quick, though. [raychuang00]
Nov 10, 2007 (10:59 am)
I still don't see what benefit for Mr/Mrs America will see by having a 5AT vs a 4AT. Are they going to race their Corolla? What is it that a day to day driver will gain by the extra gearing? If the 5AT were significantly more economical then OK I'd see some benefit...but it's not...from the EPA website:
2008 Honda Civic 5AT
New EPA MPG
New MPG tests are more realistic
2008 Toyota Corolla 4AT
Cost to drive 25 Miles $2.59 $2.59
Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.86 gal 0.86 gal
Cost of a Fill-up ..........TBA ........ $35.76
Miles on a Tank ......... TBA ....... 345 miles
Tank Size ................. TBA ....... 13.2 gal
Annual Fuel Cost* $1558 $1558
Based on 45% highway driving, 55% city driving, 15000 miles/year and Reg.: $3.01 per gallon
Click to use your gas prices and annual miles
Energy Impact Score
Annual Petroleum Consumption
(1 barrel=42 gallons)
11.8 barrels 11.8 barrels
Annual Tons of CO2 Emitted 6.3 6.3
Wher is the benefit of a 5AT vs a 4AT?
That being said, if the new Valvematic that soon will be on every new Toyota engine, comes out and adds 10% to the FE across the board then there's a real benefit. But now we're back to business and economic considerations. Profit and Expense and Pricing.
After 2 yrs when this new Corolla model has paid for itself and it's development costs have been covered then a new more expensive, more efficient engine can be added without increasing the price of the vehicle.
#1782 of 3104 Re: Toyota better improve the new Corolla quick, though. [kdhspyder]
Nov 10, 2007 (11:04 am)
As your figures show, a 5AT on the Civic gets better highway fuel economy than the less-powerful engine and 4AT on the 2009 Corolla. That's one benefit. Another benefit is that a 5AT can shift more smoothly than a 4AT because there's less difference between ratios, depending on how they're designed of course.
Is it a huge difference? No. I think some people make more out of the benefit of a 5AT vs. a 4AT on a low-powered car than is there in the real world of A-to-B commuting, the typical use for cars like the Corolla.
#1783 of 3104 Re: My dissatisfaction with the new corolla [jet10000]
Nov 10, 2007 (11:06 am)
Oh really? Please name the specific differences that have always been in effect in Canada for say the last 20 yrs on the prior Corollas and Camrys specifically because Canada is more similar to Europe than the US.
Canada has had more diesels while the US has had more gassers? Uh, No
Canada has had more upscale features while the US has not? Uh, No
Canada uses the metric system and the US does not? Uh, OK
Please, you're just making things up now. It's referred to as the NADM for a reason.
#1784 of 3104 Re: Toyota better improve the new Corolla quick, though. [kdhspyder]
Nov 10, 2007 (11:17 am)
Several years ago, 3 speed automatics were the standard. Then 4 speeds became the standard and some cars lagged behind extra years with 3-speeds (like the Neon and Metro) when almost everyone else was on 4 speeds.
Now 5-speeds are expected on new designs and the Corolla is lagging behind for a "new" model.
Cars with smaller engines benefit most with more gears. It isn't just the top gear, but the more closely spaced gears in between make for smoother acceleration without huge RPM changes between gears. Much more refined drive and the car stays in it's power band when you are trying to get on the freeway and you still have a tall gear left over for quiet highway cruising.
Ironically, cars with bigger engines that don't need gears to be as closely spaced are the ones that are getting 5 and 6-speeds in many cases. The Rav4 has a 5-speed with the V6 and 4-speed with the 4 cylinder when it would be more practical if it was the opposite.
Lexus with 7 speeds and a V8? You shouldn't even be able to feel the gears change at all.
1.8 liter 4 cylinder with only 4 speeds? Crude and dated for a newly designed 2009 model.