Last post on Nov 20, 2012 at 9:04 AM
You are in the Vans & Minivans
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Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Ford Freestar, Mercury Monterey, Tires, Wheels, Van
#251 of 1534 RE: Source for new runflats
Feb 14, 2005 (7:22 pm)
I have had Bridgestone B380 tires for 42,000 miles on my Sienna LE AWD, and they are down to about 4/32 of an inch. The noise from them is now really unbearable, since about 20,000 miles. Did not feel like replacing them because there were no decent alternatives in 225/60R17 size. I like to keep pressure in my tires within specs, and checking it bi-weekly. I think that longer than usual mileage (as compared to other reports) is due to the fact that tire pressure was maintained at 35 psi all the time. My impression is that these tires are very sensitive to the correct pressure as far as their tread wear is concerned.
The B380s were decidedly average to lower than average in performance (dry, wet and snow) compared to other all-season passenger tires at double the price of a premium passenger tire, and having a tread wear rating of 1/2 to 1/3 of typical premium passenger tire (240 vs. 500 to 700). The noise level was significantly higher than other premium passenger tires. Let’s sum up: less than average overall for 4 to 6 times the price per mile driven...
So what is the selling point? Run flat operation. I have had plenty of real world experience in this regard. During less than 1 year and 10 months that I had the minivan, had punctured these tires 3 times. Two times out of three, could not use the widely advertised and vastly over-rated runflat feature. Both times metal objects which were lodged into the tire (piece of somebody's exhaust hanger and a sizeable bolt) could not be removed except using shop tools, because the tire is made so rigid to run without air. Could not drive because in both cases because these metal “studs” were protruding 1 to 1.5 inches out of the tread, making tire jumping and limping up and down. One of these damages was repaired for about $70.00 by a Toyota dealership, another required tire replacement at about $300 after shipping from tire rack and installing at the dealer (four days after the incident). The third damage was minor with tire loosing about 1 psi per week, so again no chance to use run flat feature. Based on my experience with these, I am convinced that the very same construction features that make tire rigid enough to operate without air makes them also more vulnerable to punctures. After all soft, more pliable tire is more likely to run over a metal object without lodging it into the tread, than tire so rigid, that it requires a special machine to remove / install it on the rim.
Now the most interesting question: How was I able to get to the dealer if I could not run these tires flat (because of 1 to 1.5 inches protrusions)? I never believed in having four tires run flat or not without the spare, especially with availability problems for these tires and special machines required for installation. Within a month of getting the minivan in April 2003, ordered steel wheel + inexpensive tire form tirerack (about $100, including shipping) to use as a spare.
To anybody who is not buying into the hype of novelty at absurd prices, and interested in replacing runflats with regular tires, a new Yokohama tire is coming to the market this month: Yokohama Avid TRZ (Triple Riding Zone, see yokohamatire.com for more info) is similar, at least in concept, to Goodyear triple tread tires. I ordered these at $116.00 per tire (including installation and all associated charges) from the local Yokohama dealer. Should have them installed by the end of the month.
I love everything about the Sienna, and definitely do not regret getting the AWD model, but strongly dislike these tires. Toyota, being a company with conservative business and engineering culture should have never bought into this hype without clearly thinking it through.
#252 of 1534 RE: Source for new runflats [vgrinshpun]
Feb 14, 2005 (8:28 pm)
Thank you so much for your detailed contribution. So to be concise, this is what I got:
1. If I want to stay with the run flat, the Bridgestone seems like a better choice than the Dunlop, but I should be diligent about the tire pressure.
2. If I want a non run flat for a spare, go with an inexpensive tire, but be sure to have it with me at all times.
3. You personally are ditching the run flats altogether in favor of the new Yokohama that is coming out. I assume you will be getting 5 tires.
So you had no problem driving for a few days with 3 run flats and 1 regular tire? Did you keep your spare in the back well or on the roof? I just had another thought. If one switches to non run flats and down the road they become more available, more reliable, and cheaper, there is nothing stopping you from going back to run flats for the third set of tires. They use the same rims. Something to think about. Thanks.
#253 of 1534 Runflats and trailer towing?
Feb 15, 2005 (1:59 pm)
I was at a car show over the weekend, and ended up discussing PAX run-flats (on the Ody Touring) with a Honda salesperson. The salesperson claimed the tires could handle trailer towing, even when running flat. However, the PAX owner's manual at michelin.com claims otherwise (see pertinent manual text below).
Anyone have other experience of knowledge of run-flat tires and trailer towing issues?
The idea of leaving a trailer at the side of the road while hunting around to find a tire and service center that can do the work isn't comforting. Of course, this would only happen at night, on a holiday weekend. In the rain.
Operation of PAX System tires at low or zero air pressure with a trailer in tow, is dangerous and not recommended. If the low pressure warning indicator is activated when a trailer is in tow, stop, disconnect the trailer and do not continue to tow the trailer until the tire has been repaired and re-inflated to the proper air pressure. If the tire cannot be repaired, it must be replaced with a new PAX System tire, and inflated to the proper air pressure, before the trailer can be safely towed again.
Feb 15, 2005 (2:02 pm)
Salespeople don't always have the correct info.
Run-flats for trailers; now there's a good idea.
#255 of 1534 Re: [steve_]
Feb 15, 2005 (3:02 pm)
Well, I'm more interested in run-flat issues regarding the tow vehicle.
In particular, it doesn't seem that current run-flat technology is suited for vehicles that tow trailers (even occasionally).
A run-flat tire that requires me to leave the trailer at the side of the road while hunting down a new tire (within the rated 50 to 100 miles) doesn't seem to be terribly useful.
But I'm curious what others have learned.
#256 of 1534 Re: towing[phil_l]
Feb 15, 2005 (3:30 pm)
Maybe you can ask a Rolls-Royce Phantom owner who's rented a trailer from U-Haul.....
#257 of 1534 Re: towing[phil_l] [heywood1]
Feb 15, 2005 (6:53 pm)
...or an Odyssey Touring owner popup camper!
#258 of 1534 RE: Source for new runflats (weedshasta)
Feb 15, 2005 (7:25 pm)
Your #2 (If I want a non run flat for a spare...) I suggest to use 16" (225/65R16 tire)or 15" (225/70R15 tire) steel wheel for a full size spare (non-runflat). That is what I did (see my post #710 for details - Toyota Sienna 2004+).
Your #3. I am going to buy four Yokohama Avid TRZs. My existing 15" spare will stay as it is.
I absolutely did not have any problems driving on three Bridgestone B380 225/60R17 and one Kumho 225/70R15. As far as I remember, I used this spare for about a week.
I now keep my spare behind the third row at all times. It goes inside a wheel well, which is shown in the manual and on the diagram included with the jacking tools on AWD models. I bought threaded post which is designed to hold spare in place from the Toyota dealership. There is threaded hole in the center of the spare tire well behind third row. The hole is covered by carpet. A small cut in the carpet is required to gain access to this threaded hole.
When going on trips which require a lot of luggage, the spare goes on my hitch mounted bicycle carrier (between the post and rear hatch, while bicycles go on the cantilevered beam mounted on the opposite side of the post). I attach spare to the vertical post of the bike carrier using big U-bolt which I bought for $10.00 form the marine trailer place. This U-bolt is used to attach spare tires for boat trailers.
#259 of 1534 Re: Rolls & U-Haul/Touring & popup[phil_l]
Feb 16, 2005 (7:48 am)
Well, one combo is only slightly more rare than the other.
This towing issue seems--IMO--to be yet another drawback to PAX. And it certainly seems as though Honda and Michelin need a crash course in eachother's product.
#260 of 1534 RE: Source for new runflats (weedshasta) [vgrinshpun]
Feb 16, 2005 (1:00 pm)
Thanks for the follow up information, vgrinshpun.