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Vans & Minivans Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans
1439 messages, Last post on Oct 15, 2009 at 2:25 PM
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We purchased our 2007 touring because I like the idea of run flat. We had no problem with the tire and the wear seems okay considering other people been complaining. We mostly use it in town with a few long distance trip to CA, WA or BC. Last sunday, when we're driving home from our trip, we experience a tire puncture while I was driving 70-75 mph. First I heard a bang like something hit a wheel well. I check the MID to see the tire pressure to make sure it's not the tire. Initially, all tire pressure was 34 then within seconds the right rear number start to decrease from 34 to 3 fairly quickly. I slowed the vehicle and find a safe place to stop. It looked like flats but side wall is OK so I decided to drive  recommended speed 50 mph while my wife tried to make some phone call. initially we called honda care and we're forwarded to michelin which pretty much useless. They told me I can safely drive the car 50mph for 125 miles. Unfortunately we're over 130 miles away from home and it's sunday afternoon. They can't help me since all the honda service are closed. I was in dilemma to drive all the way home thinking if they can certified the tire for 125 miles they are probably good for few more miles. I check the tire after driving 15 miles without exceeding 50 mph. the tire was quite warm but not burning hot while the other 3 tire was cool. Since I am driving with 2 toddler, I don't want to push it. So we drove to the honda dealer where we bought the car in metro portland area. We left the car there and we have to get another mean of transportation to get home. SInce the dealer can't sell me a spare tire or sell me a wheel tire combo. the next day I called the dealership and unfortunately their pax machine is down and may take a few days to get it fixed. luckily my local dealer has a working machine and the tire staff is loaning me a paxtire/wheel ( used pax tire/wheel and kinda worn) so I can drive 100 miles to my local dealership. I guess from this experience I'll get a spare tire for my car and if I travel to remote area I may consider dePAXing but for driving in town my wife will probably prefer the PAX because she can keep on driving without changing tire (in town) |
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Replying to: skap2 (Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm)
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Replying to: mixa1 (May 03, 2009 7:45 pm) Small claims courts tend to be user friendly, I sugggest calling the clerks office after your review their website. One thing to bear in mind, you must opt out of the class action settlement which was just mailed out to Ody owners. Of course risk is that you may lose in sm claims but in my view the settlement is so miniscule for depax owners, doesn't much matter. Hope this helps
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Not sure if this would be relavent information for sm claims or not. My experience with dePAxing has shown significantly improved handling and reduced stopping distance of the van. I haven't officially tested this, but my seat of the pants tests suspect a significant difference. If this can be proven with official testing somehow it could be an important safety note that may be grounds for a recall. I'm told that each PAX wheel weighs around 75 lbs that's about 35 - 40 lbs heavier than your typical rim and tire and less rotating mass hanging off the axles is likely the reason most drivers notice different handling characteristics when they dePAX. There's also issues with how the PAX tire profile doesn't align with the van's suspension properly hence the premature wear on the outer shoulders of the tires. If you mostly drive the van with a couple of kids most of the time (practically empty) you will see very premature tire wear on the outer shoulders (15k in my case). This issue was pointed out to another owner by a mechanic, but i don't remember who or where. Every mechanic and tire professional i talk to about this is stunned by this product and how simply awful it is compared to existing tire technology. This whole thing has to be at the top of the list of the worst technology debacles in automotive history.
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It was another bright idea from Michelin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelin_TRX Krzys |
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Replying to: skap2 (May 06, 2009 5:03 pm) I have already studied State Bar of Texas website and read everything they have on the small claims. I have also found that CT Corporate System (apparently the law firm) is the registered agent of American Honda Motor Co in Texas. Their headquarters are in Dallas so it seems to me that if I want to sue them I would have to go to the court in their county. That is why I'm considering filing a suit against my local dealership for failing to inform me about all the limitations of the PAX tires such as higher-than-expected replacement costs, difficulty getting repairs and excessive wear and absence of a spare tire. I have already opt out of the settlement. Do you know where I can get Appendix A to support my claims? Any other advice before I talk to the office clerk? Appreciate your help!
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Replying to: jareti (May 11, 2009 11:28 pm) Agreed on your observations, identical to my own experience. Every tire person and a few Honda folks all said the same thing, Michelin created a disaster, great in theory but impractical for the real world. Sort of like the Concorde, it was great for those who were willing to pay $5K one way to go Mach 2. |
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Replying to: mixa1 (May 12, 2009 5:59 pm) 1) 35K makes it harder for your case. A judge can be convinced that is low but its not unreasonable, like 15-20K would be. 2) I would sue whoever charged you $405 to remove a nail !!!! My dealer also lied to me, but in fairness, I got a nail a few weeks after taking delivery and they plugged it. I know there's a lot out there about how pax can't be plugged, but I have mine to prove it. 3) CT is a corporate agent firm, not a law firm. Just bc they're in Dallas doesn't mean you can't sue them where you bought the car. Not saying you can, I can't evaluate that, but I would ask the clerk to guide you on how to determine whether you can obtain personal jurisdiction in small claims. Don't be afraind to call them more than once. On Appendix A, I haven't looked at the materials yet but I will revert ... |
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Since my van is out of warranty, I wasn't too concerned about swapping out the pax system. I de-paxed my '06 using 17" wheels and tires from TireRack, and the oem tire monitors. I got about 35k out my original pax tires and opted to replace them with the Sport Edition wheels and Continental tires. I didn't bother disassembling the pax wheels, so I bought new tire monitors and the entire spare tire kit from the local dealer. The independent tire installer had to use washers to shim the valves/monitors to the rims, otherwise the valve threads are too short to secure them. Everything looks and works great. While it cost almost as much to de-pax the van as the dealer was charging to put new pax tires on, it'll save a lot of money on the next set of tires. It might even save some money on gas and brakes since the new wheels are a lot lighter than the original system.
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