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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

1439 messages,  Last post on Oct 15, 2009 at 2:25 PM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Ford Freestar, Mercury Monterey, Tires, Wheels, Van

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#1327 of 1439 Re: Pax Free [rtruns_honda] by chmnj Dec 31, 2008 (4:01 am)
Replying to: rtruns_honda (Dec 30, 2008 7:52 am) Many thanks for all the information, particularly the information on Bernardi Parts. In the New York Times article about Michelin phasing out PAX tires, a Honda representative is quoted as saying that owners shouldn't change out the tires because the suspension was tuned for PAX and it will be degraded if you put non-PAX tires and rims on he car. Have you noticed any deterioration of the ride after you de-paxed? Replies to this message: shipo (Dec 31, 2008 9:13 am) chmnj (Dec 31, 2008 3:07 pm)
#1328 of 1439 Re: Pax Free [chmnj] by shipo Dec 31, 2008 (9:13 am)
Replying to: chmnj (Dec 31, 2008 4:01 am) Unsprung weight (which includes wheels and tires) is the bane of handling for any vehicle, regardless of how "tuned" the suspension is. Said another way, due to the fact that non-PAX wheels and tires will weigh in at only half to two-thirds of the weight of the PAX assembly, it is highly likely that your Odyssey will ride and handle better if you switch to GFTs (Get Flat Tires). As it turns out, I've read anecdotal reports from many-many folks who've made the switch, and they either indicate that they cannot tell the difference (faulty butt skid-pad calibration device IMHO ), or they indicate a significant improvement in the ride and handling department.   Keep us posted on what you do.    Best regards, Shipo Replies to this message: chmnj (Dec 31, 2008 3:07 pm)
#1329 of 1439 Re: Pax Free [chmnj] by edwardtinsley Dec 31, 2008 (12:16 pm)
Replying to: chmnj (Dec 30, 2008 5:44 am) The Michelins I bought are NOT run-flats. They are regular tires. I do not have a spare, yet. Any Honda dealer can sell you a spare and mounting kit (like all the LX and EX models came equipped with). It mounts behind a panel in the rear on the driver's side. Check this thread, I think there are several comments on it, including pricing. Yes, $280 was for the lug nuts AND new TPMS sensors (I believe they are specific to the year of your vehicle). I sold all four Touring PAX Wheels and Tires on ebay for $350. The guy was local and paid cash. Easiest transaction I've ever had.
#1330 of 1439 Re: Pax Free [shipo] by chmnj Dec 31, 2008 (3:07 pm)
Replying to: shipo (Dec 31, 2008 9:13 am) Well, I told the dealer I'd back out of the deal unless he went halvies with me on the cost of de-paxing the car and putting snow on it for now. So while I would have liked to have negotiated harder with them on this item, I had already squeezed them a bit on the price for some other items. They say it will take a few more days to get all the items together (08 EX rims and Blizzaks) and so I won't be able to let you know what I think of the drive till next week.
#1331 of 1439 Re: Pax Free [edwardtinsley] by chmnj Dec 31, 2008 (3:17 pm)
Replying to: edwardtinsley (Nov 05, 2008 8:17 am) Forgot to ask you: What did you sell the 4 PAX wheels and rims for? I'd like to pitch a credit to the dealer to save the hassle of trying to sell them. I saw someone said he'd sold a set on ebay for $350.
#1332 of 1439 PAX Free by rtruns_honda Jan 01, 2009 (7:34 am)
I have not noticed any deterioration of the ride. To me the ride is about the same but my snow tire setup weights in at about 50 lbs and my PAX setup is about 72 lbs. I have been reading this forum for years and do not recall one person that de-PAXED having any problems with the ride. My last visit to the Honda dealer I told them about how I had de-PAXED, while I was sitting in the waiting room the service rep introduces me to another long time PAX owner looking to stop the madness. This dealer has the equipment to service a PAX tires but still told the customs that people have successfully de-paxed.   I found one OEM shop on eBay that has claimed to have de-PAXED over 30 Odyssey’s   http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/acurahondaoem_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ   If you get the van do not wait to get the spare, the cost to fix a flat PAX is about the cost of the spare.
#1333 of 1439 When Will Honda Do the Right Thing by vinnyny Jan 01, 2009 (7:41 am)
I think my Ody Touring is the best family vehicle ever made. However, I can't believe that Honda is still refusing to do anything to make right on the Pax debacle. My current Ody has 17k miles on it and I'm hoping that Honda will announce some settlement before I have to trade it when the Pax die at 35k (like I did with my 06 touring). If Honda doesn't offer free replacements, I'll trade for an American CUV or SUV and never go back...
#1334 of 1439 didn't you buy odyssey touring knowing that by krzyss Jan 01, 2009 (6:32 pm)
it had PAX?   Early adopters of failed technologies will get burned.   Krzys Replies to this message: vinnyny (Jan 02, 2009 7:33 am)
#1335 of 1439 Re: didn't you buy odyssey touring knowing that [krzyss] by vinnyny Jan 02, 2009 (7:33 am)
Replying to: krzyss (Jan 01, 2009 6:32 pm) When I bought my first PAX-equipped Ody in 2006, the problems with PAX were not yet known. PAX was heralded as a safety feature based on its ability to run flat for 125 miles. Dealers touted the safety aspects of RFTs at the same time they advertised that the incremental costs would only be 10-15% above the cost of normal tires. They also cited a wide dealer network including all Honda dealerships.   RFTs were not new, untested, technology--BMWs were equipped with them for several years prior to my purchasing PAX. However, my dealer didn't share the fact that the PAX system is not analogous to the RFTs on my BMW. Specifically, shorter tread life, replacement costs as high as $2400, lack of qualified service centers and a shortage of supply were some of the undisclosed issues.   I bought my 2006 PAX-equipped Odyssey Touring because I wanted all the Touring's features and that was the only way it was available anyway. I lived in the desert Southwest at the time and traveled between Tucson and Phoenix regularly. RFTs made good sense in the desert--who wants to stop to repair a flat in 120 degree heat? However, my dealer made it sound as though virtually every Honda dealer and most good tire shops would be able to service my PAX tires--not true.   When I moved to the East Coast, we drove my BMW and Ody cross-country. The BMW had a blowout and we couldn't find an exact replacement tire for about 200 miles. That was bad and it caused me to question how far I'd have to go on the PAX tire if it had failed. Answer: no PAX dealers for over 500 miles along our route and that dealer told me it would take several days to get all the parts. (Not to mention the fact that they would have been closed for the weekend long before I made it there).   Since I moved to VA, most of the main PAX detractors are no longer factors. There are more PAX-qualified dealers, so I don't have to worry so much about getting stranded (at least during normal business hours). Costs have come down signficantly, but they still cost more than twice what regular tires cost. As to the tread wear issue, I'm hoping that Honda will do something like offer one free set of replacement tires to each PAX owner. Otherwise, I'll trade in my 2007 Ody when the tires wear out at about 35k miles. (As I said earlier, I won't buy another Honda if they don't do the right thing here).
#1336 of 1439 Negotiating w dealer by skap2 Jan 03, 2009 (4:23 pm)
we just passed 20K miles on first set of Pax, down to bet 4-6/32 tread depth. Won't go past 25K if that. I just started negotiating on dePax w my dealer. Initially he said can't switch to regular tires, then I conferenced in a Honda dealer in OH that does them and he explained how easy it is and no effect on Honda warranty. My dealer then agreed to do it. I told him I want it done at actual dealer cost for everything, which should be around $7-800. Waiting to hear back.   IMHO litigation will yield about $1-2 million in legal fees for plaintiffs class counsel, and probably a modest discount (25%) for Pax customers to replace or dePax. Strongly doubt anything more. Replies to this message: vinnyny (Jan 04, 2009 6:29 pm) saelkins (Jan 16, 2009 7:08 pm) saelkins (Jan 16, 2009 7:02 pm) bukfan (Jan 19, 2009 8:15 pm) edwardtinsley (Jan 20, 2009 5:53 am) skap2 (Jan 20, 2009 5:55 am) bukfan (Jan 23, 2009 1:39 pm)

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