Last post on Feb 20, 2012 at 5:45 PM
You are in the Volkswagen Passat
What is this discussion about?
Volkswagen Passat, Sedan
Dec 15, 2004 (4:06 pm)
Think peaceful, non-strident thoughts, indeed.
I agree with the concept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I keep reading that there are lots of people who are fans of Japanese cars and German cars and so on.
I keep finding more and more sites on the web for "fans of the brand" -- I found a mopar site an audi site an acura site and heck there is probably a site dedicated to the Ford Falcon and other obscure or perhaps one might erroneously conclude brand that would not merit a fan club.
I have never owned a Japanese car -- I plan to test, eventually, the new RL (and the new Audi A4 3.2 and the Chrysler 300C AWD and/or SRT-8 AWD). I have some time to play with ~ 6 months until my lease or milage limit is reached.
I have been so well treated by Audi of America, the Audi Club and my specific dealer, it will be a hard fought battle to move me off of Audi.
This forum, sometimes in spite of sometimes because of its rancor, has made me willing to look beyond the VW/Audi group.
Nothing in my VAST experience with Audi, BMW and VW (other than the historically high prices of BMW's compared with Audis, for example) since 1978 would make me call them junk or whatever other epithet was thrown around here recently.
Nothing can make me have an experience based opinion about Japanese cars -- two of my associates have Acuras, one has about a million miles on it -- the thing is a 1997 and, frankly it is a piece of junk (all things considered it probably was nice about 800,000 miles ago) -- the other young man (he is in his 30's) has a 2001 or 2002 Acura and he says he likes to visit in from time to time in the shop, it is apparently there so much.
Do these two personal stories mean much -- probably not. My personal experience with Audi and VW (including some old Jettas, Sciroccos, Quantums and Passats) since 1977 has made me think these cars are fantastic. I do not think they are bullet proof. Perhaps the Infinity and Nissan lines are.
Disclosure time: both Honda and Toyota (divisions) are my clients. Both Honda and Toyota executives have ONLY respect for Honda and Toyota, by that I mean the Honda folks respect both Honda and Toyota and ditto the Toyota folks.
I cannot in good faith disclose too much information but the only company these two companies think is worse than the Nissan group is Mitsubishi -- and they have some really funny, not even really off color stories that they tell about the "poor quality" of these two brands, especially Mitsu.
Indeed, these folks only seem to have concern -- from Asia -- about what the Koreans might be up to or at least capable of in the future.
Both H and T seem concerned about erosion of the brand and are wanting to move the perception of their brands both "up market" and to a "younger market." Hmmm, this sounds like: Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Mercedes, Subaru, Volvo and on and on and on.
Currently both H and T, while "knowing" their cars are very reliable, also acknowledge the loss of some youth appeal and an appeal to a performance oriented buyer. Audi and BMW, to name two, do not seem to have this issue at least.
Perhaps the Germans, or the Europeans in general, do not have the reliability thing going for them -- but they certainly do have the "no boring cars" thing down pretty well.
I heard that is why the next Camry will come with an available 275HP engine. I can say this now that it is no longer protected by my NDA.
Love this town-hall.
Love the first amendment. But find it somewhat hard to understand harsh statements from a non-participant in the (whatever) brand.
I really like the new Acura RL -- on paper, for example. Haven't driven it -- I also loved the TL on paper, found driving it was a huge let down due to massive torque steer.
Its reliability may not be at issue, but it certainly was not a driver's car.
The new Passat at $38K fully maxed -- still reads like a bargain.
I've been wrong before.
P.S., while the Phaeton has been a disappointment, it, according to some articles is not THAT far behind where they thought it would be -- these things take time.
Now if they drop it like a hot rock next year, well then our friend (above) will be (future tense) proven correct.
#32 of 2364 sorry I was late to the show...
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Dec 15, 2004 (6:05 pm)
but some off-topic, hostile posts have been removed. This topic is reserved for the upcoming Passat redesign - plenty of other places to discuss German v other reliability. Thanks!
#37 of 2364 Re: [creakid1]
Dec 16, 2004 (4:40 am)
This Passat does look like compelling value versus A8 or Phaeton or other expensive marques.
If new Passat is priced too high it will turn off potential buyers(despite the fact it may be worth every penny). If they keep the prices the same, the new Passat may cannibalize sales from the new Jetta(in Canada they hiked the prices quite a bit for the Jetta).
Not an easy pricing decision.
#39 of 2364 Re: [dewey]
Dec 16, 2004 (12:28 pm)
I seriously doubt the new Passat is meant to even remotely compete with the Phaeton or A8.
The Passat is on a different platform than the A8/Phaeton or A6; they utilize the ASF.
The new Jetta 2.0T seems perfectly slotted (power/size), to take over where the previous Passat 2.8 left off. There is always a slight overlap between models of the same manufacturer...which I think is desirable.
The new Passat contains some very compelling features and power to match. My only misgivings would be 280hp (I'm very interested in seeing torque graphs) on the Golf platform, but from what I read the new platform is exceptional.
I potentially see loaded 3.6 Passat's cannibalizing 3.2 A6's, but I could guarantee that you would be giving up a higher level of luxury, refinement, and prestige.
The loaded Passat, in the near luxury category, is a competitive segment. After all, for 38K you can buy a lot of car (insert what you think that means here) from other manufactures.
I paid less than that (38k), negotiated price, for my 99.5 A6...but with the new Passat stating it is more rigid than the previous model, which was based on the A6 platform, perhaps the new Passat will be superior to the previous A6 (chassis).
On paper the Passat looks like it would the trump others, but so did the Phaeton (never driven one...maybe it does.).
Dec 16, 2004 (1:08 pm)
I think VW is in for some rough times in NA. Rumor is it's losing a cool billion in USA alone this year, fact is BMW's going to be the top European seller this year and for the foreseeable future, all because of VW's avoidable missteps.
To make money, VW will have to sell more than 300K. To do that, Passat will have to fight it out in the meat segment of the market with Camry/Accord/Altima, three huge volume models. But what does VW do? It pulls Phaeton II and brings out a Passat to compete with A6, not A4! I'm sure it's a great car. But what will it do to VW volume, and does A4/A6 need another competitor from within the family.
VW's going to fall behind Acura in volume in a really short time.