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Automotive News & Views Daimler's abuse of the Dodge Charger legacy.
659 messages, Last post on Jun 21, 2006 at 2:03 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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I thought a muscle car was supposed to be a smaller-sized car with a big engine, and little else. That is, only the stuff required to go fast. Like a Road Runner with dog dish caps, vinyl bench, etc. Actually, the Shelby Charger probably fit the profile pretty well, if you have a broad enough mind to be flexible about engine and drivetrain layout. Small car stuffed with big power (relative), designed to go fast without too much unneccesary stuff on it, and there you go. |
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would be essentially any-sized car, whether it be compact, mid-size, or full-size, but with a high performance engine and beefed up handling. Now sometimes they can make a smaller car fast by just dropping in the engine from a bigger car. For instance, the Olds 88s that used 98 V-8's, or the Buick Centurys which used Roadmaster V-8's. However, those particular V-8's aren't high-performance specialty engines. Just bigger engines in smaller bodies, and they went faster by virtue of having less weight to push. However the 1955 Chrysler C300 used a special, high-performance 331 Hemi that put out 300 hp. IIRC, the regular 331 Hemi in the New Yorker and Imperial only put out 250 hp. And I think the Windsor only had a 301 poly. Same with the DeSoto Adventurer and Plymouth Fury for '56. Now, some people will argue that you can't have a full-sized muscle car, but I don't agree with that. First off, a '64 GTO, which is a muscle car, rides a wheelbase the same length as a '56 Fury. 115 inches. Furthermore, I think a '64 GTO is about the same length! And something like a 1973 GTO is going to weigh nearly as much as a '57 Chrysler 300C or DeSoto Adventurer.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Jan 17, 2005 1:09 pm)  least 350 cid)V8, intermediate-sized coupe or convertible body. If someone wants to consider a '96 Impala SS or a '64 426 Fury a Muscle car, I can understand that but it doesn't fit the orthodox definition. The were lots of perfectly good performance cars that don't quite fit the "accepted criteria: Some were based on compacts, not intermediates-- Chevy Nova SS/327/396, Studebaker Lark R3, Dodge Dart Swinger 318/383. Many were pony car-based: Camaro SS 427/396, Boss Mustang 429 A lot were based on full -sizers: Galaxie 406/427, Fury 383/426 Hemi. Is a '62 Biscayne 4dr with a b-post a "muscle car".? It is if you want it to be and it could outrun many of the classics. |
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| Lots of good rides there! Things sure have changed. I suppose the SRT-8 300C would classify as a muscle car. Bigger but hipo powerplant with suspension and brake upgrades. Hopefully that 6.1 will find its way into the Charger, too. What's the going price on the SRT-8? 39-40K? Would change the horsepower performance wars bigtime. Especially at that price! You will have to double the cost to get the same from the Old World manufacturers. | |
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| well one could argue that Chrysler and Dodge products are now part of the "Old World Manufacturers" | |
| Well, I was hoping to avoid that connection! LOL | |
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I have to say how much fun i have reading this board lately. I love some of the passion of the anti Charger crowd, although i believe it's a hair misdirected, but it's their opinion and it is great. I've also enjoyed the other sides arguments, and now it's evolved into the muscle car debate...just love it. Someone mentioned AMC...I've always been a fan of the underdog and i've always made my purchase of cars different from the mass produced stuff...Since Chrysler swallowed up AMC, do they have the names of AMC as well? Javelin would be a great name to bring back..imho.. |
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I think the SRT-8 version of the Chrysler 300C is going to start off at around $50,000. On one hand, when you figure that it's not hard to load up a regular 300C to $40K+, even if they do start at $32,995 or whatever, maybe the $50K is a pretty good deal. However, I think in 0-60 it gets you down from just under 6 seconds to just under 5. It's wonderful for bragging rights, but I dunno if it's really worth the extra money. I know I wouldn't pay it! |
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Having seen the Magnum at the Los Angeles auto show, I can only describe it as a homely beast. However, I can see the hemi versions taking over police duties from the Crown Victoria. I'm sure that a police version would have better chassis dynamics than the Crown Vic, and it is spacious enough to carry perps in the back. If I were a fleeing evildoer, those cross hairs closing in on my rear bumper would get my attention. |
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Mopar is also offering the 3.5 V-6 as a police package on the Magnum, which is called a "special service" package. The Michigan State Police tested such a beast when they rounded up a bunch of 2005 models for their annual test. You can download the pdf file of the test here: www.nlectc.org/pdffiles/msp2005bulletin.pdf In 0-60 it was slower than the Impala or Crown Vic. The Crown Vic has really improved in the past couple years, especially with the 3.55:1 axle ratio. The Magnum is just a hair quicker than the Intrepid 3.5 it replaced. Which, when you figure it's also about 300-400 lb heavier, maybe that's not too bad. And once you get up to higher speeds, it does start to make up for it. It hits 100 mph slightly quicker than the Impala, but still behind the Crown Vic. And it's electronically limited to 117 mph. The old Intrepid 3.5 was limited to 135 mph, according to the MSP test of the 2003 models. I'm sure a Hemi Magnum would more than level the playing field though, and send the Crown Vic and Impala crying home to their mommies 
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