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Daimler's abuse of the Dodge Charger legacy.

659 messages,  Last post on Jun 21, 2006 at 2:03 PM

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#110 of 659 Re: [grbeck] by explorerx4 Jan 15, 2005 (6:14 pm)
Replying to: grbeck (Jan 15, 2005 3:45 pm) "The simple fact is that unless the car has a galloping horse on the grille and a "Mustang" nameplate on the side, reasonably priced coupes that share no sheetmetal with a sedan variant are dead in the American market." as a mustang owner i say; no guts, no glory. the 5 year old(pre d-c) concept was much better. i think the whole 300 look is because the 'hemi' is such a tall engine(designed to go in a ram pickup).
#111 of 659 Re: [grbeck] by rik4 Jan 15, 2005 (6:41 pm)
Replying to: grbeck (Jan 15, 2005 3:45 pm) well not all you say is true. HOw do you explain the 2 door viper and the very low market it is aimed at the amount of capital it took to produce it in such low numbers and then there is the crossfire . it seems they can make a 2 door and justify it when they want too. Truth is they are out of touch with the mass public. 2 dr cars or coupes will sell if they are reliable and aesthetic to the eye. THen mustang and Ford GT prove that. Use your theory and make a 4 door mustang and see what happens in sales. Ford tried a 4 door T bird and it bombed. Why is there a sebring 2 door and convert. why not 4 doors there too. If you cannot make a 2 door and make money why have they been building the sebring for almost 20 yrs. Maybe they should stop it now and invest in a more lucrative style. No from the beginning some idiot decided it should be a family car with a big engine and they never explored the alternative and now they will reap what they have sown. ANd i think heads should roll when the car does not sell. DCX is not cash rich and this is a very big mistake and could in the end be the downfall of dodge. Diamler did not want dodge or for that matter chrysler they really wanted jeep and the jeep patent rights on 4 wheel drive. This is a mistake just like the bangles BMW diaster. If someone has the email address of deiter Zeitsche then post it and we can all email him by the thousands of this mistake and let them know. If he fails to respond then his head should roll too when it fails. remember if you plant a crab apple tree you will not get any macintosh apples.
#114 of 659 Don't put too much faith... by andre1969 Jan 15, 2005 (10:10 pm)
in those on-line polls. It's too easy to skew them. All you'd need is for a Dodge Charger club or a Mopar club in general to get ahold of a website like that, and it's all over.   Oddly, at certain angles, the Charger actually makes me think more of a vintage 300 Letter Series than the new 300 does! It's mainly in the "face" of the car...makes me think a bit of the snout on the '57-59 cars, or even the trapezoidal openings on the 60 and '61-62 models. Or heck, even the '63-64 a bit.
#115 of 659 Why is there a sebring 2 door by iowabigguy Jan 15, 2005 (10:28 pm)
"Why is there a Sebring 2 door" rik4 asked? Well I believe in 2006 it goes away. I was told no more 2 doors will be made by Dodge other than the viper. Simply economics, like the demise of the 2 dr Neon. They didn't sell enough to justify the 2 dr models.
#116 of 659 Daimler Spin Doctors propagandize Dodge Charger by itsnotacharger Jan 16, 2005 (12:23 am)
In the aftermath of this Charger fiasco have you noticed how many Daimler spin doctors that there are working the chat rooms, magazines and other forms of the media?   Recently, one suggested that Dodge wants to return to the car business. Why then, did they put a Chevy S-10 truck front end on a Maverick body and then call it a Charger?   In addition, a promotional video shows Kasey Kahn, Jeremy Mayfield and an apparent Daimler exec gloating over the new Charger at a race track. Of course, the Daimler exec tries to spin the new Charger as something it is not...an heir to the legendary muscle car of the seventies. They even have King Richard fawn his approving eye at the eyesore as it passes around the track.   First of all, the fact that Daimler managed to get Kahn, Mayfield and King Richard within their propaganda ministry only indicates everyone has their price.   You know what? It turns out that if you pay people enough money they'll give the trophy for The Cutest Baby to the ugliest kid on the stage. Not only that, but they'll smile about it too.   Actually though, behind the scenes reports have Nascar crews that were seeing the car for the first time commenting that (and I paraphrase), "It looks like the family Truckster from the movie National Lampoon's Vacation" and "Thank goodness for the template."   Now you tell me, how many Nascar teams have you ever heard sing the praises of the template? Well, until the 2006 Charger came along my guess would be zero.   Because of its ungainly and disproportionate Streisand-like nose they should call the car the Dodge Focker. Only this time the ones getting focked are those of us who actually appreciate the thoroughbred stance and aesthetic appeal of the original Chargers and that doesn't include the arrogant and clueless Fockers who designed this mutation of automotive engineering.   What was that line? "I knew John Kennedy and you're no John Kennedy." Well, I knew the Dodge Charger and this is no Dodge Charger, plain and simple.   It turns out that the 2006 Charger has as much in common with the legendary muscle car of the sixties & seventies as a mosquito has with the American Bald Eagle.   All of you youngsters who have just received your learners permits may disagree with me, it's a free country, but apparently I'm not alone.   You see, Creed, the head of the know-it-all Charger design team admits that an inordinate influx of hate mail is running 30-to-1 against this flounder of a car.   A novel idea would have been for Daimler to actually take a ride in some of the original Chargers and to talk to some owners of the cars before starting their work.   Also, I believe I detected an accent while reviewing a promotional (propaganda) film with Trevor Creed.   I have no problem with MR. Creed being from another country if that is the case, but common sense dictates that an American with an American Muscle Car heritage be given the assignment.   How would the British or Germans feel if an American headed up the reintroduction of a classic Jaguar or Porshe? I wouldn't blame them if they were concerned in that case.   Now, if the the 2006 Charger was that great I don't believe the Spin Doctors would really be necessary?   In closing, Daimler missed a platinum opportunity when they didn't go forward with the 1999 Dodge Charger prototype which enjoyed widespread appeal. The bottom line is, if they had done that, instead of the Bait & Switch, there wouldn't be all of this controversy now.   Have a nice day. Replies to this message: driftracer (Jan 16, 2005 6:36 am)
#117 of 659 Re: Daimler Spin Doctors propagandize Dodge Charger [itsnotacharger] by driftracer Jan 16, 2005 (6:36 am)
Replying to: itsnotacharger (Jan 16, 2005 12:23 am) How many times will you say the same thing over and over?   And no, I don't work for DaimlerChrysler...in fact I work AGAINST them in lemon law suits.
#118 of 659 by grbeck Jan 16, 2005 (7:28 am)
rik4: HOw do you explain the 2 door viper and the very low market it is aimed at the amount of capital it took to produce it in such low numbers and then there is the crossfire . it seems they can make a 2 door and justify it when they want too.   In my post, I specifically said "reasonably priced" coupes.   I should make myself clearer: reasonably priced = affordable to the majority of buyers.   Neither the Viper coupe nor the Ford GT fit into that category. They sell at the upper fringes of the market.   Their sales success is no more relevant to the mass market than that of Ferrari.   The Crossfire, meanwhile, has pretty much flopped.   Please also note that the Sebring and Stratus coupes will be phased out within two years because they never sold that well.   Convertibles are a different matter - although I would note that the Sebring convertible is based on the sedan platform, so that makes it profitable to keep in production, even with the phase out of the coupe.   rik4: Truth is they are out of touch with the mass public. 2 dr cars or coupes will sell if they are reliable and aesthetic to the eye. THen mustang and Ford GT prove that.   Do not confuse diehard Mopar fans or even the posters on this site with the "mass public." The average car buyer has entirely different standards and expectations - not to mention knowledge of automotive history - than we do.   rik4: Use your theory and make a 4 door mustang and see what happens in sales.   The Mustang is a completely different case. It has remained in production, uninterrupted, for 41 years. During that time, it has always been available as only a two-door. It has never strayed from its original concept - a moderately priced, highly styled coupe or convertible available with both "average" engines and high-performance options.   Mention "Mustang," and most people will think of the car first and the horse second, and they will have a good idea of what that car looks like.   Plus, since there was a 2004 Mustang (and a 2003 Mustang, and a 2002 Mustang, etc., etc.), people expect a reasonable degree of continuity with the format and layout of the 2005 Mustang. There is a ready audience of Mustang buyers.   The Charger went away for over a decade, and I doubt that most people could recall what one looks like. If they do, it is because of The Dukes of Hazzard. At best, the general public has a vague memory of the name, as much because news articles about the new one continually mention the old ones.   Nor do most people remember the 1999 Charger showcar (which, I agree, is beautiful).   People are going to compare this new Charger to the Impala, Grand Prix, Five Hundred/Montego, perhaps the upper-level V-6 Accords and Camrys, maybe the Pontiac Bonneville, and the Intrepid (current Intrepid owners who want to stay in the Mopar family).   For 95 percent of the car buying public, the old Chargers and the 1999 show car are irrelevant to their purchasing decision.   Of course, I guess Dodge could christen it the "Dart," and offer it in trim levels named Seneca, Pioneer and Phoenix.
#119 of 659 by andyman73 Jan 16, 2005 (5:35 pm)
As long as they keep the price in control, it will sell. Very few of it's direct competitors have V8 power available. So far just the Pontiacs. So, if you can get the Charger for 27.5K with V8s, it will go. They can even throw in the 4.7 as the starter V8, with say 275hp and 325 torque.    It is interesting to see all the Impalas on the road. Talk about an emotional icon that managed to make it okay as a FWD car. So, I think the Charger will do just fine with RWD and AWD. And the Impy isn't currently available with 8 boiling pots for motivation. Unless thats now available for 05, I don't know. And everybody that is crying about the Charger knows the history of the Impala. I mean, we're a long way from the Bubble top 409s.

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