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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Volkswagen TDI Models Prices Paid and Buying Experience
831 messages, Last post on Nov 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM
You are in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum. Your Hosts are car_man & kyfdx
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Replying to: bruceleecc (Sep 15, 2005 3:31 pm) good luck, DL
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Replying to: dl7265 (Sep 15, 2005 5:47 pm) |
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I have been looking, researching and test driving TDI's for the past month. I've been laughed at, snickered at, etc by high and mighty VW sales people simply for asking to see a TDI. These things are not that valuable. Do the math. Unless you are driving a tremendous amount of miles they are not cost effective. I went out tonight and bought a fully loaded, sharp looking and comfortable Hyundai Sonata for $6000 less than the cheapest VW TDI that I priced. And I didn't have to wait 3 months to get it. In 60000 miles (5years) I will burn about 800 more gallons in the Sonata. Thats $2400 at $3 per gallon. I'm still $3600 to the good with the Sonata and I don't have to mess with Diesel or Canola Oil. This TDI thing is almost cultish.
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Replying to: billmd (Sep 15, 2005 9:45 pm) hm i was actually about to look at one. I mentioned that to the VW sales people and they just laughed at me. Seriously, they just started laughing. They didn't laugh when I said I just got back from the honda dealer. But actually, i will still probably go look. |
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Replying to: billmd (Sep 15, 2005 9:45 pm) 1) Depreciation 2) Financing 3) Maintenance 4) Insurance 5) Fuel Those are the costs related to owning a car.... The only clear advantage the Sonata has over the VW is financing... as you would borrow less money to purchase it. regards, kyfdx
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Replying to: kyfdx (Sep 16, 2005 2:42 am)
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After an exhaustive search for a new 2005 MK IV VW Jetta TDI in a manual tranny in the lower 48 I turned to Canada. As Canadian VW dealers are prevented by VW from selling a new VW directly cross border to American buyers (they can sell you a used one), I had to find a Canadian intermediary to buy the vehicle for me. I found that intermediary in Superior Auto Sales, an independent dealer in the Buffalo, NY area. Discovered SAS, a Registered Importer listed on the NHTSA website, in a 2003 Edmunds article on Grey Market Cars from Canada. Thanks, Edmunds ! Superior does this by maintaining a leasing company in Ontario that purchases the car which is then resold to you. Canada still had manual tranny Jetta TDI wagons in 2005 models with a $1500 Canadian dollar ($1269 USD) rebate. There are,as well, 2006 MK IV Jetta TDI iwagons in Canada as VW in its infinite wisdom continues to import the wagon to Canada while the U.S.is cut off from Jetta wagon imports until the fall of 2006 when the MK V Jetta is produced in wagon form as a 2007 model with its own badging. For a 2005 model that MSRP'd for $22800 in the U.S. I was offered the car by Superior for $24900. That price includes the Provincial (8% in Ontario) and Federal Government tax (7%) that must be passed on and the $1500 factory rebate. If VW allowed me to buy a new Volkswagen directly,the Canadian tax would be refundable when I brought the car to the U.S. and paid my state sales tax. However, by this intermediary method, an American buyer must suffer double taxation. In addition, as the Jetta TDI wagon is made in Germany, I had to pay a 3 % U.S. Customs tax as it is not duty free under NAFTA as a Jetta TDI sedan would be because it is made in Puebla, Mexico (the new MK V Jetta wagon will be made in Mexico along with the sedan to avoid USD/Euro exchange rates which are not favorable to the American buyer). That came to another $700. So my cost came to $24900 + 700 import fee + $600 U.S. state sales tax for a car worth $22800 in the States. VW further complicates matters for the American buyer by refusing to issue the buyer a letter from the manufacturer that states the car is in compliance with U.S.emissions, safety, and environmental laws. You must go to a Registered Importer who provides proof that the car is in compliance. In the case of the VW that is confined to the speedo/odometer. The VW speedo registers in metric and in miles, but the odometer is metric. If a conversion is done, it must be at a franchised VW dealer to protect the warranty. Though VW has tried to make it impossible for an American to buy new in Canada, they did tell me they would honor the warranty if I could pull it off. I did not try to buy a duty free MK IV Jetta TDI sedan as the Canadian supply was dried up -the MK V sedan having arrived. I eventually passed on the deal. I also investigated buying the car in Mexico where it might have been cheaper, but could find no one like Superior with an avenue to purchase the car in Mexico. Furthermore, as in Canada, VW will not allow a Mexican VW dealer to sell a new car directly to an American.
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Replying to: billmd (Sep 16, 2005 5:18 am) The VW dealer that I use for service is also the Hyundai dealer. They gave us a Hyundai as a loaner. I was VERY glad to get back into my Passat TDI. I cannot think of one thing I liked about the car, except it was a free loaner. Pricing right now is too high for the TDI models. I called the dealer that I bought my Passat TDI from. I wanted a Beetle TDI. She told me that they were tough to get at MSRP. She offered to buy my Passat Wagon for what I paid in April. I told her I had better offers already. Timing is everything. Buying a high mileage car right now is bad in a sellers market. I'll wait till the price of gas drops. If it doesn't go down. I feel just like you, I can buy a lot of fuel for the difference between invoice and MSRP.
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Replying to: widow1 (Sep 16, 2005 5:57 am) |
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I have decided to wait for the new generation MK V Golf TDI. The MK V Golf has been out in Europe since 2004 so hopefully all the first year glitches are gone unlike the situation with the MK V Jetta which was introduced here before it appeared in Europe. Hoping the TDI's fuel efficiency won't be as compromised as the new longer, wider, heavier, 16/17" tire clad Jetta's is. As far as buying in Canada, from what I gleaned from the 2003 Edmunds "Grey Market Cars" article (I hope Edmunds updates this article to reflect current conditions), there was a flurry of Americans buying in Canada a few years back because the exchange rate was so favorable. In addition, manufacturers "priced to market," i.e., because of the higher taxation in Canada and the lower wage scale prices were adjusted downward, particularly so with American cars. The Edmunds article cited a Montana car dealer who bought Dodge Caravans north of the 49th parallel for $19500. Here the vehicle was priced over $28000. Hondas could be had over there at a retail price that was below U.S. invoice. Honda tried to stop the American buying in Canada in 2003 by refusing to honor warranties on Canadian bought cars brought to the states. Other manufacturers followed suit. Not the case with VW which does not now price the cars lower in Canada and who will honor a new car warranty if you succeed by guile in getting it over the border. I have a friend who's worked for many years for GM's part supplier, Delphi, who explained to me how American car makers can "price to market." His plant could produce an A/C unit for a Chevy truck for $149; yet, if you went to a dealer's parts department you might be charged $339 for just the evaporator. So don't believe all the talk from the automakers that blame their woes primarily on the wage, pension, and health care costs extracted from them by the UAW. And you are right, gagrice, the free trade mania being pushed now by the Republicans benefits the big guys - the corporations and the wealthy - and is an assault on the working classes as Perot and Buchanan pointed out in the 1990s in their criticism of NAFTA. As for as auto makers like VW's prohibition of cross border sales of new vehicles, I believe there have been some lawsuits in the courts for some time now alleging monopolistic price fixing. |
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