Last post on Dec 03, 2013 at 8:26 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Volkswagen Golf, Volkswagen Jetta, Volkswagen Passat, Diesel, Coupe, Sedan, Wagon
#1061 of 1253 Re: 2011 Golf TDI-payback? [chidrive]
Mar 20, 2011 (10:05 am)
I purchased a 2010 4dr manual Golf TDI last April. You need to consider this:
The extra price for the TDI is NOT simply for the TDI engine. The TDI has much nicer appointments (alloy wheels, larger tires, sporty suspension, better seats, etc.) as well. And when you consider the price of fuel, also realize that the price has been going up for both gas and diesel. My girlfriend has a 2009 gas Jetta Sportwagen. And while I pay more at the pump, she has to fill up more often than I do.
I love my TDI. It's fun, comfortable, and fuel efficient. I average 41 MPG on my trip to work and back each day. It's a combination of city and highway driving. On road trips, with air conditioning on, I've averaged 52 MPG. I've only averaged 9,000 miles this year.
"Study shows diesel engines recuperate extra cost quickly"
The only thing that you need to consider is the problem with the High Pressure Fuel Filter. See here for information:
"NHTSA is estimating that 0.53% of 2009 models (1 in 200) and 0.11% of 2010 models (1 in 1,000) have experienced these failures."
"This is the official thread for discussion of the fuel pump failure issue that is affecting a small number of 2009 and 2010 4 cylinder VW TDI engines."
#1062 of 1253 Re: 2011 Golf TDI-payback? [stackabones]
Mar 20, 2011 (10:33 am)
For sure they do not and it is not easy to do a like for like comparison. That is one reason why I focused on a like miles scheduled and unscheduled and cost of fuel comparisons. RUG Fuel per gal (to go 120,000 miles) almost always cost less per gal than diesel. On the other side, fuel to go 120,000 miles uses MORE fuel.
The "bling" aspect of the other stuff is important mostly to what makes you feel good while you do the miles(in my example 120,000 miles). Importantly it is either helpful or not, for the resale portion. The resale value of course lowers your per mile driven: depreciated (when you finally sell) You can see this in MB's and BMW used cars. Almost all are high quality but the resale values and percentages drop like rocks. Now TDI's have higher resale values both dollar wise and percentage wise over its gasser counter parts. Also in the example I gave it has higher $'s and more importantly percentage wise than the Civic (gasser)
#1063 of 1253 Re: buying a loaner [gagrice]
Mar 20, 2011 (10:36 am)
Indeed. It could also be a demo and/or (dealership) executive car. If one is truly interested in a car with 7,500 untitled (aka sold as new) you might wish to ask what incentives they are willing to do.
#1066 of 1253 Re: 2011 Golf TDI-payback? [chidrive]
Mar 21, 2011 (6:31 am)
If the bulk of your driving is in the city, and if driving in Chicago is anything like it is in NYC (i.e. stop-stop-and-go, congested "express"ways, etc.), AND if MPG is your primary concern, then you should definitely go with a hybrid.
I live in New York, and while my '09 Jetta TDI gets great mileage (40+) on the open highway (outside the city), it averages only slightly above 20 when confined to the 5 boroughs. So far, despite the nagging worry about the fragile HPFP, I love my Jetta, but not enough to delude myself into believing that the EPA's city estimate is based on REAL city driving conditions.
#1067 of 1253 Re: 2011 Golf TDI-payback? [zambaq]
Mar 21, 2011 (7:01 am)
Actually the mpg for the Golf/Jetta ARE based on REAL world city driving conditions. While the bold print EPA miles are 29 C/ 40 h they are 24 to 34 city and 33 to 47 mpg highway.
While I am sure this is LONG since forgotten, when the 04 Prius came out the EPA was 60 city and 50 highway. I am guessing this motivated HUGE numbers of people to buy Prius. Not too long afterward, there was a great bru ha ha that mpg was MUCH lower than epa's of 60 c / 50 h. Politically, it caused the EPA to adopted an even more complex (more prone to error and favoring hybrids) test. Even today, you really can not get a real picture of what ACTUAL range really triggered the Prius owners (small but obviously vocal) discontent.
Because I was seriously interested in the 2004 Prius ( one time), the best I could get was it was giving 46 to 48 mpg. This was app 5 mpg better than the 2003 Prius.
Again the real issue (other than fuel mileage) is the fact the real competition to the Jetta TDI (09) is really the Camry Hybrid. As such the Toyota is thousands more and the Jetta TDI gets better fuel mileage. A dot.gov site shows owners report an average of 3.6 mpg more than the Camry Hybrid owners.
So it would be interesting to see what you would get driving a Camry Hybrid in the 5 bouroughs. Or any thing else for that matter.
#1068 of 1253 Re: 2011 Golf TDI-payback? [zambaq]
Mar 21, 2011 (6:47 am)
Your city figure of 20 is too low. Something is definitely wrong with it. With a properly functioning 09 Jetta TDI, you couldn't get a figure as low as 20 in the city if you idled it for 10 minutes at every street light you encountered and floored it every time you left a light.
#1069 of 1253 Re: 2011 Golf TDI-payback? [samm43]
Mar 21, 2011 (7:03 am)
Yes I would tend to agree. The worst I have ever gotten on 03 TDI Jetta was 44 mpg and it was in (tank full, not MFD) ) 300 miles stop and go traffic in down town Las Vegas with 4 people in the car, A/C blasting in 104 degrees ambient temperature.
#1070 of 1253 Re: 2011 Golf TDI-payback? [ruking1]
Mar 21, 2011 (7:55 am)
I'm sure you're correct about all your figures, but I'm just reporting my own experience, and even that sliding EPA city estimate of 24 to 34 would still leave me and my Jetta on the outside looking in. Perhaps the EPA should add another category especially for NY -- how about EXTREME City? (BTW, I don't think anyone would accuse me of being an aggressive driver, and if something were wrong with my particular car, why would it get such good mileage --up to 50 when I'm really trying-- on the highway?)
I don't agree that the '09 Jetta's real competition is the Camry. That might be true of the new, roomier 2011 Jetta, but my brother has a Camry, so it's easy for me to compare -- his car feels like a leviathan on the road, and mine more like a little darter! In any case, Chidrive is considering buying a Golf TDI, for which a Prius is a better comparison.
And I stand by my original assertion: that for someone interested in buying an "affordable" car for mainly CITY driving, and for whom MPG is the #1 priority, hybrid/electric is a better option (maybe 75% better even by your figures) than diesel.