Last post on Oct 24, 2013 at 5:25 PM
You are in the Porsche 911
What is this discussion about?
Porsche 911, Porsche Carrera GT, Coupe, Convertible
#829 of 2175 Re: Porsche European Delivery; Tale of Woe [blckislandguy]
Jul 06, 2006 (7:44 am)
While a 911 has a list of 71K, no one in their right mind would want one that way for that kind of money. At 71K you don't get leather, power seats, NAV, a rear wiper---this must be a joke, right?,
There are a lot of reasons to talk yourself out of a Porsche. I talked myself out of a Boxster S in 2002 in favor of a $25k less expensive Honda S2000. And I had no regrets.
But I similarly have no regrets for dishing out nearly three times as much for a 911S Cabriolet in 2005. And, while the S2000 is perhaps the best sports car from Japan and a legitimate competitor to the Boxster, there really is "no substitute" for the 911 - especially if you plan to use those little back seats like I have.
You can choose to get bent out of shape that Porsche's option list is a mile long. The S2000 had 0 options. But I would respectfully suggest that you avoid comparing a 911 with a XK, AMV8, BMW M6, or any other car before you spend serious seat time in each. I may not have fully appreciated the 911 after my first month and 1,000 miles, but there is no way I could switch to one of those cars now. You might also want to put it in a historical perspective. The 2007 911 Turbo is cheaper than the 1995 Turbo was. And the 2007 911S outperforms the 1995 Turbo. It's a very good time to be in the market for a 911, extra charge rear wiper notwithstanding.
#830 of 2175 Porsches and Options
Jul 06, 2006 (7:51 am)
While a 911 has a list of 71K, no one in their right mind would want one that way for that kind of money. At 71K you don't get leather, power seats, NAV, a rear wiper---this must be a joke, right?, only four basic colors to choose from, etc. etc. So the stripper gets loaded up with 20K worth of stuff that everyone else throws in for free.
The 911, Cayman and Boxster are about steering, handling, suspension and drivetrain. Anyone who buys them for any other reason is wasting their money. People like to project luxury onto them and Porsche obliges. It seems that many Porsche buyers think they are somehow getting shortchanged by not slathering on options. I donít see it that way. Porsche provides an impeccable sports car without one option added. I donít care what other manufacturers throw in for free, they are not Porsches. Paying the piper for a Porsche is nothing new.
I think plenty of people buy Porsches for reason other than what I just mentioned only to find out soon enough that the car is not for them, itís too feral, as if they werenít expecting a sports car. I have a friend who has three cars, a Cayenne S, a Mercedes S500 and a 911. He and his wife had to get rid of the 911 because the ride was just too hard and it wore them out. They replaced it with an SL.
You have to crave the ride, thatís where the value is. The options are no substitute and anyone who looks to them for some kind of solace will not own a Porsche sports car for long. They are so-o-o secondary in this ownership experience IMO.
#831 of 2175 Re: Porsche European Delivery; Tale of Woe [habitat1]
Jul 06, 2006 (7:55 am)
You might also want to put it in a historical perspective. The 2007 911 Turbo is cheaper than the 1995 Turbo was. And the 2007 911S outperforms the 1995 Turbo. It's a very good time to be in the market for a 911, extra charge rear wiper notwithstanding.
Excellent point. I would also add that you get more with an 07 Boxster S as compared with a 96 Carrera, and eleven years later it costs approximately $9K less. To put it in further perspective those 993s are still very sought after cars and their resale is tip-top, not that Boxster resale is anything to write home about.
#832 of 2175 Re: Porsches and Options [designman]
Jul 08, 2006 (7:42 pm)
The 911, Cayman and Boxster are about steering, handling, suspension and drivetrain. Anyone who buys them for any other reason is wasting their money.
...but just in case anyone out there is wondering about gas mileage, I just returned from a trip to our second home (360 miles each way). I averaged 25.6 mpg going (including 15 miles off-highway) and 26.7 on the return trip at an overall average speed of 71 (up to 85-90 on a couple of short stretches). My wife and kids left and returned earlier in our MDX and averaged 20.5 mpg for the same route.
P.S. I pity somebody that replaces a 911 with a slushbox, slush-chassis SL because they find the ride "too hard". But, to each their own. I also have golfing buddies who buy a new $500 gallon-sized titanium/uranium driver every spring and then shudder when I suggest we actually play a 7,000 yard course from the tips. If I get to that point my wife has instructions to have my life support removed.
#833 of 2175 Tail of the Dragon
Jul 10, 2006 (4:07 pm)
WOW!! I imagine this magnificient 11+ mile stretch of twisting turning road - the Tail of the Dragon - has been a topic of discussion before, but I had never heard of it until I happened to find myself vacationing very close by last week along the southern border of the Smokey Mountains. Fortunately, I had my new C4S handy and had just recently topped 2000 miles on the odometer, so I was able to fully enjoy myself with several runs on a couple of different days. Dweiser, I take it you've had the opportunity to experience this thing? It's difficult for me to imagine a better stretch of road to experience the FULL handling capabilities of a 911, gotta be one of the top 5 best public road stretches in the world to test your porsche, if not THE best.
Also, the good word is that the car seemed to top everything on the road! It was mostly various motorcycles making the runs (aka, crotch rockets I'm told), and I initially thought there would be no way the 997 could hang with some of those boys. But, I drove behind a couple of different rocket groups, and honestly, I had to hold back 15-20% to keep from running up on them through the turns. I was pushing that much harder when I had the road to myself! 2 different beemers were not even close. Fantastic experience, it'll reinforce your original purchase decision (as if); not that I had time to look at myself in the rearview, but I do know I had a wall-to-wall grin on my face during half of each run (I also seem to recall feeling a stretched facial expression of terror the other half of the time!). Do try it if you ever get out that way (just google tail of the dragon); hopefully, will get some cool pictures to share.
#835 of 2175 Re: You lucky guy decisions1 !! [dweiser]
Jul 12, 2006 (1:35 pm)
Now we have to plan a cross country vacation trip with our C4 to North Carolina and Tennessee.
The last time my wife and I drove through TN and NC was summer 1978 when we were junior and freshman in college. We thoroughly enjoyed our drive with a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500 with several pretty big dents and an undefined color (somewhere between silver, green, and a lot of rust).
By the way, has anyone driven both the "The Tail of the Dragon" and the Angeles Forest/Crest Highway in SCal? I wonder how they compare.
Jul 17, 2006 (5:32 pm)
I'll fess right up that, as they say in South Boston, I still have my First Communion money. So, while I'm hot on the trail of a 997, I'd like to spend as little of it as possible. I wonder what the board thinks about the following:
1) New '06 or '07 997 C2 Coupe with power leather seats and little else for, say, sticker less $4500-5000.
2) A used 997 2005 C2 Coupe with 18 K miles for 66K (asking). The car comes in metallic paint, full leather interior, chrono clock, 19" wheels, Bose, power heated adaptive seats, zenons, PASM, sport shifter, CD changer, Porsche emblem on the back of the seats, etc. etc. from a high end, non-Porsche dealer. The original MSRP was 86K. There are other examples out there for roughly the same price.
My rough analysis is that a new '06 or an '07 will cost about 4K more plus have higher insurance, sales tax, and property excise tax. With the '05 I I'd be giving up 18K in miles, a year or more in warranty coverage, and lower resale down the road. However, I'd be getting 20K (at list) in desireable options for free and save a little up front.
#837 of 2175 Re: 997 new vs. used [blckislandguy]
Jul 17, 2006 (8:19 pm)
I'm not going to suggest what would be the right choice for you, because it depends upon a lot of factors, including how long you plan on keeping the car, how much you like those extra options, etc.
Consider, however, that the used one will need a 20k service and full tire replacement, if those items haven't already been taken car of. Together, that could be a $2,500 +/- ticket.
On the other hand, the used one is already taking a pretty good depreciation hit, so it won't likely decline as much over the next two years as the brand new one would.
I didn't have the option of considering a used 997. And a used 996 was of no interest to me.
#838 of 2175 Re: You lucky guy decisions1 !! [kying]
Jul 18, 2006 (3:32 pm)
If I can help with road suggestions, things to see, etc. for your trip over here, just ask. I've never been on the Tail. You can find me at whitesquirrelart.com