Last post on Oct 24, 2013 at 5:25 PM
You are in the Porsche 911
What is this discussion about?
Porsche 911, Porsche Carrera GT, Coupe, Convertible
#1865 of 2175 Re: 911 Engines and Advice for 1st time buyer [buylow]
May 07, 2008 (2:50 am)
If you're a newbie, like me, I think a 997, certified pre-owned from a prosche dealer with the extended warranty and wheel and tire protection, is the only way to go.
There are two schools of thought. Yes, the Porsche CPO program has an extended warranty and, one would hope, the dealer will stand behind the car. It's a good program.
However, also depending upon the dealer, CPO prices can be grossly inflated. I've seen 1 year old CPO cars being attempted to be sold for darn near what a savvy buyer could get a new car for. My dealer readily admits that they make 2-3 times the mark-up on a used CPO trade than they do on a new car. Also, as has been pointed out, proper break in is absolutely critical for high performance sports cars in general, the 911 in particular. Looking eye to eye with a private owner and asking them what they did regarding break in and how they drove the car would be one way to assess this. Lastly, there are good independent extended warranties available - even a Porsche customer service rep told me that some privately available extended warranties cover certain "cosmetic" items that the CPO warranty does not.
My own experience opened my eyes to the other side of CPO. When my dealer asked me in March if I was interested in trading for a 2008, the trade in value they placed on my car was $18k less than what they were asking for a similar vintage, less well optioned C2S on the lot at the time. When I pointed out the discrepency, that's when they admitted to making a lot more on a used car than new one. The new car sales manager even went so far as to recommend that I sell mine privately, if I had the time. As he explained, many of their trade ins are from "desparate" sellers that got in over their head or had other circumstances that required they get rid of the car quickly. And, unfortunately, some of these desparate sellers were probably not careful about break in, proper warm up and responsible driving. Accidents repairs are not allowed, but improper break in and abuse is hard to detect until it's too late.
CPO or private-party, it pays to do your research and shop around.
#1866 of 2175 996 oil consumption
May 07, 2008 (7:53 pm)
My 2002 996 C4 conv. had it's rear main seal replaced 2x, the first I pain and the second the dealer covered the cost, mileage is 41,000. Prior to the main seal replacement the 996 required 1 qt of oil every 600 miles. Post rear main seal, it consumes 1.25 qts every 300 miles. To say the least, this has me very concerned. The dealer has always maintained that the 600 mile consumption is with spec. I have not spoken to the dealer regarding this concern I am hoping to get some feedback before I approach this subject. Originally I had purchased this car with 24k miles. My 2007 997S with 4K miles has not consumed a single drop, even though I track it on a monthly basis. What's up with this? I really love the 996 and don't even consider selling it.
#1867 of 2175 Re: 996 oil consumption [911nut]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
May 07, 2008 (9:43 pm)
It's certainly not "within spec" that's for sure. Did you mean 1.25 qt every 3000 miles? that would be okay. It's fine for an engine to use a little oil; in fact, probably good for it.
If it wasn't a TYPO and you are using a quart every 300 miles, you have a serious problem that may require a new short block.
#1868 of 2175 Re: 996 oil consumption [Mr_Shiftright]
May 08, 2008 (2:22 pm)
I wish it was 3000 miles. Unfortunately its every 300 miles.
#1869 of 2175 Re: 996 oil consumption [911nut]
May 08, 2008 (3:53 pm)
I bought a used 2004 911 with 24k miles and discovered that it was using 1.3 qts every 400-500 miles. I had to put pressure on the dealer to replace the engine becuase their magic number is 1.67 qts per 660 miles.. which is bull. You would have to fill the passenger seat with oil for a trip of any distance.
#1870 of 2175 Re: 996 oil consumption [bsissi]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
May 08, 2008 (4:20 pm)
That's crazy. I can't believe the Porsche factory would issue such a statement in print. Maybe the dealer is just making this up?
Any consumption under 1 qt per 1,000 miles is alarming IMO.
#1871 of 2175 Re: Porsche active suspension management [habitat1]
May 08, 2008 (8:41 pm)
Thanks for the info on PASM and certified pre-owned warranty. I guess if the mark up is higher on CPO's then you have to negotiate harder and know your prices. When I bought my 2006 911 from the porsche dealer I was playing off a similar 2006 porsche I liked that was at a BMW dealer. The porsche dealer wanted $71,000 (13,000 miles). The BMW dealer also wanted $71,000 (of course, not CPO), but quickly came down to $65,000 (12,000 miles). The next day, when I was at the prosche dealer, the BMW guy called and said he would drop the price lower, so I was fired up while negotiating with the prosche dealer. I tried to get the car for $61,000, but the porsche dealer would not go below $65,000. When I got up to walk out, he threw in the towel and said he would extend the warranty to 100,000 miles and take it out to 2012 if I bought it now. I bought the car and thought I had cut a fat hog. The salesman made it sound like he was giving up the store and wouldn't eat for a week, but from reading this forum, it sounds like the CPO comes with the car anyway. I guess I'm going to have to change my user name.
To change the subject, there has been a lot of talk about oil leaks due to possibly not breaking in the car properly. This seems to be more with the 996's and earlier. I don't remember reading about any 997's with this problem. I have a cabinet shop in my garage and have to park my 997 outside in order to work which is probably 4 to 5 times a week. Engine on about 30 seconds. The car has 13,800 miles and let's assume it was broken in properly. We usually go for a one or two hour drive on a
Sat. or Sun. with a lot of freeway driving at 60 to 80 mph. Don't drive it during the week. I'm assuming that having the engine on for just 30 seconds is better than driving it for 5 to 10 mins. Just like not turning the engine on at all, right? Or, does it matter at all, assuming that the car was broken in properly. This stuff about the problems not showing up until 45 or 50,000 is scary. And, these guys that are having so much oil consumption on cars that costs over $70,000 is just unbelievable. Any thoughts?
#1872 of 2175 Re: Porsche active suspension management [buylow]
May 09, 2008 (9:54 am)
At 13k miles, your car was either broken in properly or not by the original owner. I don't think turning the engine on and off to move it in and out of your driveway is going to cause any harm at this point.
The lesson I was given by my dealer on break in was simple. Don't turn the key unless you are going to drive the car for 15-20 minutes - i.e. until the oild temperature (not just water temp) gets to full operating level, and then keep it there for another 5+ minutes. This gives the seals, gaskets, rings and all engine parts the opportunity to full expand and contract during the break in period.
I have 19.2k miles on my 2005 and just added my first 3/4 quart of oil since it was changed at 13k miles. I do think the 997 model addressed most (but perhaps not all) RMS leak design issues, but there were reports on RennTech of at least 1-2 owners that had RMS leaks on 997 models. Don't recall the circumstances.
#1873 of 2175 Re: Porsche active suspension management [habitat1]
May 09, 2008 (6:53 pm)
Thanks for the info. Your post brings up another question - oil changes. Was the 13,000 miles your first oil change? The manual says every 20,000 miles. My 2006, which I just got a month ago has 13,800 miles. I don't know if the oil was ever changed. The computer reading shows almost full, one notch down on the little graph. I was going to wait until 20,000 miles, but what do you think? I could ask the service manager at the prosche dealer, but I'm sure they would recommmed frequent changes. I've never heard of 20,000 mile oil changes. Is it the engine or type of oil that lets the car go so long? I assume you're happy with 3/4 qt over 6000 miles? If this is normal, I will expect the same when I reach !9,000 miles.
#1874 of 2175 Re: Porsche active suspension management [buylow]
May 10, 2008 (4:23 am)
Actually, upon further review of my records, I was mistaken. My last oil change was at 15k miles and 23 months, not 13k miles. I had my first oil change and service and done early at about 10k miles and 14 months. I was nervous about waiting the 2 full years, even though both my servicing dealer and selling dealer service managers said that it is fine for the 997. Unfortunately, I think the service technician forgot to reset the service computer and a "service due" light came on at 23 months, so I ended up doing it again. Even then 3/4 quart in the past 4,000 miles is pretty normal for a 911, perhaps even on the light side.
20,000 miles or 2 years between oil changes does sound like a long time, but the engine holds 9+ quarts and the oil filter is a large $40+ filter. And everyone from Porsche that I talked to said that this was a specific design feature/intent of the 997 model - i.e. reduced maintenance intervals.