Last post on Oct 24, 2013 at 5:25 PM
You are in the Porsche 911
What is this discussion about?
Porsche 911, Porsche Carrera GT, Coupe, Convertible
#1795 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [gtmaguire]
Mar 19, 2008 (4:21 am)
I think the new C4S discount of $15k off MSRP is a decent deal, only if that's pretty darn close to exactly the car you want. Personally, I am not a fan of the "4" over the "2". It provides better wetweather traction, but at the expense of more added weight and a less responsive feeling and initial acceleration. Not to mention that it adds $6k to the price and decreases fuel economy by 5-10%. I have driven both and prefer the C2S to the C4S, but that is "opinion".
However, the "alternative" Moo has offered you is absurdly priced. The MSRP of brand new 2008 911 C2 Cab is $83,800. Control yourself on the options to the tune of $8,000, negotiate a discount of $7,000 +/- and bingo, you are in a brand new 2008 for under $85,000 - in your color choice, with your options, that you can break in yourself. You'd have to be nuts or worse to buy a (potentially) 1.5 year old one with 4,400 miles for nearly the same price. I'd want to save at least 15-20% going the used route over new.
I am not picking on Moo. The dealership that I have my car serviced at is just as greedy, when it comes to used cars. Thanks to the internet, everybody knows the facts on new cars - MSRP, invoice, etc. Dealerships have been knocked down to making $5k-7k or less +/- on a brand new car. But on used cars, the sky is the limit, if they find a desparate seller and a buyer with more dollars than sense. That C2 that Moo is offering for $83k. My guess is that the dealer gave the owner $65k or less for it on trade. If I'm wrong, have him fax you the signed paperwork.
Lastly, if you do go the used route, consider dealers as well as private sales, but don't get duped into thinking a Porsche certified extended warranty is your only protection.. It does NOT cover everything, excluding things like electronics, nav systems, "cosmetic" items, etc. I learned this speaking with Porsche NA customer service, when I inquired about getting an extended warranty on my car. He indicated that the extended warranties offered through some of the private carriers are more inclusive than Porsche's. The Porsche warranty is effectively the company's way of supporting the dealers trying to sell used cars for top dollar.
Good luck, and don't let emotions get in the way of financial prudence.
#1796 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [habitat1]
Mar 19, 2008 (6:23 am)
Hab, you're way off. I'll check when I get into work, but IIRC the original MSRP was 111k.
I don't feel uncomfortable about asking for profit at all. That's kind of my job. We have to find the right vehicle for our friend first though. Let's work on that.
#1797 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [madmanmoo]
Mar 19, 2008 (7:39 am)
$111M for a C2 cab, not unless it had some crazy options.
#1798 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [madmanmoo]
Mar 19, 2008 (7:44 am)
but IIRC the original MSRP was 111k.
If that's the case, they need to open a new asylum in Atlanta. $30,000 worth of options on a base C2 Cab wouldn't just be crazy, I think it's damn near impossible. The highest price I saw for a C2S cab when I was shopping was $109k and that was with a custom to order color and full custom color leather interior. Anything over the basic $8k or so worth of options is heading towards a complete waste of money, new, used or repossessed.
As for you asking for a profit, I agree - you shouldn't feel guilty about that in the least. I'm certainly a believer in free marekt capitalism. I was just pointing out to our "friend" that he needs to be extra prudent in assessing a used car deal. A new C2 or C2S cab is the same whether you buy it in Atlanta, DC or Timbukto. But every used car is a little different in mileage, condition, etc. And from what I can tell, some dealers try to make up for their diminished bargaining power on a new car by overly aggressive pricing on a used car. If one Porsche dealer is charging $3k, $5k or $7k more for the identical new car than another dealer, it's easy to figure that out quickly, as I did in 2005. But, as best I can tell, it's damn near impossible to get a consistent fair market value for a used 911. Edmunds, KBB and others don't even list half of the options on my car. It's a throwback to the, "Come on in and we'll talk about price" days before the internet.
#1799 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [habitat1]
Mar 19, 2008 (9:22 am)
Ok, things calmed down around here and I have a chance to post again. You guys are right. I was mistaken on the original price. It was $91,660. (Leeeetle bit off there. )
I understand where your pricing mentality comes into play. I think I'm more thinking along the lines of how much our friend is looking to spend. I think the deal on the 2007 is good, but he's still about 15k over what he was wanting to spend. It's all about what options are important to him as well.
Regardless, if he wants the extra help, I can certainly work towards that.
As far as the Tiptronic question goes: We sell a fair amount of them, but my personal opinion would be to go with the manual. I've always enjoyed the feel of the manual much more than the Tip.
it's damn near impossible to get a consistent fair market value for a used 911.
Well, it's tough to get preowned 911's on the lot. We don't put anything on the lot that has had previous paintwork, so that narrows our vehicles down very quickly. Then you need to find the vehicles that you can certify as well. That narrows the market even more.
These are all fun decisions though. Which vehicle to go with? Porsches have never been and won't ever be a "need" vehicle. This makes it easier to enjoy the process of finding the perfect vehicle.
#1800 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [habitat1]
Mar 19, 2008 (9:28 am)
It does NOT cover everything, excluding things like electronics, nav systems, "cosmetic" items, etc.
The warranty does not cover:
Batteries damaged from storage.
Batteries damaged frmo lack of use.
Tires damaged by road hazard.
Tires damaged by premature wear.
Parts that fail due to lack of maintenance.
Normal wear and tear.
Cleaning and polishing.
Air conditioner refrigerant charge.
Vehicles with branded titles (manufacturer repurchase/repair, flood damage, totaled - both structural and constructive - salvaged, VIN altered or removed, non-North America VIN
Wheel balancing and tires.
The electrical system is covered. The central information screen is covered as well. For the amount of protection that you get from the Porsche certification, it's a no brainer to go with it. The cost on it is $1,549. Check out how much the cost would be for an extended warranty through a 3rd party and find out what kind of parts they would be using for the repairs.
The Porsche certification is a no brainer.
#1801 of 2175 My Porsche with options
Mar 19, 2008 (3:16 pm)
Thanks Habitat for some excellent advice. So I used Edmunds and priced my car with options. This set up would make me very happy. I am going the triptronic route, it gives my wife the ability to drive the car. Any must have options that I excluded? What should I expect to pay? Can I get close to my 85k price point? Moo I am a bit far from you in georgia.
2008 Porsche 911
Carrera 2dr Convertible (3.6L 6cyl 6M)
249 5-Speed Tiptronic S Transmission
475 Porsche Active Suspension Management System
403 19" Carrera S Wheel
680 Bose High End Sound Package
P74 Bi-Xenon Headlamp Package
E9 Midnight Blue Metallic
635 Parking Assist System
342 Heated Front Seats
CUL Windstop w/Colored "Porsche" Logo
V9 Cabriolet Top In Black
Total with Options
And an I-pod integration kit.
#1802 of 2175 Re: My Porsche with options [gtmaguire]
Mar 19, 2008 (4:12 pm)
Drop the PASM. That's a good way to get closer to that 85k target. I don't know your driving habits, but I doubt you'll probably use that much after you get it.
Of course, you'll have to add taxes, etc onto the price, so you'll probably be a little over $90k on the build after it is done. I would say pay a little extra to get exactly what you want. You''ll be happy you did.
Looks good though!
#1803 of 2175 Re: My Porsche with options [madmanmoo]
Mar 19, 2008 (4:37 pm)
Personally, I'd keep the PASM and drop the 19" wheels, HID's, Bose, and Park Assist.
There, you just knocked $4,500 off the purchase price on stuff that adds nothing to the value, performance, or enjoyment of the car.
#1804 of 2175 Re: My Porsche with options [fedlawman]
Mar 19, 2008 (4:48 pm)
Why get rid of the wheels? I truly did not take a good look at the 19's anyway. Is the look that much different? As for the sound system, is the base system good enough, I like my music loud! What option was the HID? The park assist honestly has to do with my fear of my wife driving the car and backing it up!!! Don't really trust her.