Last post on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:25 PM
You are in the Porsche 911
What is this discussion about?
Porsche 911, Porsche Carrera GT, Coupe, Convertible
#1781 of 2170 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [gtmaguire]
Mar 09, 2008 (5:01 am)
A few responses:
Leasing: It sounds like you are somewhat similar to me. I always pay cash for my cars, figuring I'll bite the bullet once and be done with it. If I was looking at a BMW I might consider leasing, as they offer great lease rates/subsidies. Porsche doesn't. I would have been stroking a check for about $1,600 per month on mine and that would have taken some of the fun out of it for me.
Coupe vs. Cab: Where do you live? Climate? As I said, my purchse of the 911 was based on it being a sports car the whole family can enjoy. The Cab does run $10k more than the coupe, but the joy of driving around on a nice day with the top down and the girls hair flowing in the wind is priceless. The coupe is more of a track ready car (no added roll bars required), but for public road fun, the Cab is hard to beat.
Base vs. S: The initial cost difference looks like $10k, but the S gives you Xenon, PASM, 19" wheels and a couple of other goodies in addition to the more powerful engine. Net difference for the engine is about $5,400. After driving a base 911 a few weeks ago, I think the S is worth it. If you go the base route, I would seriously consider the PASM (Adjustable suspension) option. The base car I drove was harsh over bumps compared to my "normal" setting, but still not as tight around the curves as the S set to "sport". Noticable difference.
Price negotiation: Good news, Porsche sales are down 12% so far this year and the lousy economy/stock market is on your side. Also, the 997 model has now been out for awhile, compared to when I bought. Bad news, we are heading into prime spring season for buying a Cab, so dealers might be less inclined to heavily discount. I picked up my 2005 off the showroom floor in September 2005 as the 2006's were on the boat. Perfect time to negotiate - and I got a decent discount off from a dealer in Baltimore. But even at that time, some of the DC area dealers were trying to hold to near MSRP. Use Porsche's website to check out dealer inventory online, before you walk in.
Options: Don't get bent out of shape over the 20 page option list. If you are oredering a new car, keep it simple.
My car: 2005 997 S Cab, Seal grey, Black Leather Seats, Power memory seats, Navigation, Bose, 6-CD changer, Porsche Sport Exhaust, Sport Chrono, heated seats, self dim mirrors, etc. Current MSRP for an identical 2008 model = $107,385. New 9/27/05 (29+ months). 18,200 miles. Broken-in to perfection. My daughters will kill me if I sell it, but the stone mason is tempting me with added ideas (costs) for our new house. So slip me $ 72,995 and I'll even split you on the cost of an extended warranty to take you past a new car warranty! But you have to take care of it and give me a right of first refual to buy it back when you are done in 3-5 years.
#1782 of 2170 Made the mistake....
Mar 15, 2008 (8:35 pm)
of just trying a Porsche for fit. Now I'm a tall guy, and even taller from the hips up - like someone 6'8". I've owned Mazda's as sports cars,the last a 2004 RX8 I got new for just $24K - my daughter shifts it now as her daily driver - now with almost 70K miles on it. Bought the RX8 mainly b/c I fit in it - no other sports car allowed it at that time - I didn't want a convertable anyway, corvette was too small.for me. So I'm driving and turn into the nearest Porsche dealer here in Atlanta - Jim Ellis. Try the Cayman on for size - and its a no-go. The sales guy says try this Targa 4S... fits like a glove! Now I couldn't even get the sunroof version of the RX-8 because of my size - and in the Targa and later a 2S, I'm feeling incredibly giddy. But common sense takes over when he asks me if I want to take it for a spin. Same thing got me to buy a LR3 for my wife a couple years ago, and I don't want to cash in any of my losing investments... So I say no.
Now I've yearning for a new sports car... RX-8 was as nice a handling car as I've ever owned - I could really fling it around in the Georgia mountains - and I could buy 2 of them for the price of the engineering excellence the Porsche 911 offers... A also notice lots of folks don't use the 911's as daily drivers, and while I wouldn't need to I would not have and qualms using the rotary rocket as a D-D, but what about the Porsche?
Help! Can you guys talk me out of or into the Porsche?
#1783 of 2170 Re: Made the mistake.... [lr3rx8]
Mar 16, 2008 (5:12 am)
So I say no.
Good thing you did (say no), or you'd have a much more serious dilemma. When I drove an RX-8 a few years ago with my niece who was car shopping, we both thought it was pretty soft in handling and performance compared to a Honda S2000, let alone anything by Porsche. I'm not anti Japanese - that S2000 was a legitimate competitor against the Boxster back then, but franlky, the RX8 is just a "sporty" coupe by comparison, not a serious sports car.
The bad news is the 911 C2S will set you back about 3-4 times (not 2) the price of an RX-8. The good news is that it's worth it. As for daily driving, the "S" model, with standard PASM is the way to go - or get PASM as an option on a base car. That allows you to toggle between a normal and sport suspension setting, meaning that you don't have to lose your fillings going over bumpy roads to the grocery store. With PASM, the 997 model 911 is probably the most "daily driveable" of any serious sports car out there. I have put as many miles on my 2007 Turbo over the past 16 months as I have on my M5 during that time, with the M5 only getting some of those miles when I need to carry more than 1 adult passenger.
I won't try to talk you into or out of a $80k-$100k+ decision. But I will suggest you consider the C2, C2S or even S Cabriolet over the C4S Targa. I am not a fan of how AWD adds weight and dulls the responsiveness of the Turbo (which I am trading for a GT2). And the Targa roof is sort of the worst of both worlds - adds a lot to the wieght of the car compared to the coupe, but doesn't offer the true open air feel of the Cabriolet. Good luck.
#1784 of 2170 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [habitat1]
Mar 16, 2008 (5:20 am)
Parting with a loaded 2 1/2 year old $107k Cab S with only 18k miles for $73k?! Sounds like you are offering a heck of a deal - that stone mason that is building your new house must be something! Personally, I think you should keep it for that price - you could probably drive it for another year and only lose $5k more in resale.
#1785 of 2170 Re: Made the mistake.... [spiritinthesky]
Mar 17, 2008 (2:10 pm)
Yes I know the diff is price is a bit significant... even if I go with a 2005 2S. I was thinking maybe to go the two car route (Get a older 2004 RX-8 and have it track tuned for $20K+ and get another newer one for daily driver....At least with the mazda I can fit four adults if I have too... But I still may keep looking for that magical 2S with PASM for 60K. Gotta see how the market does in the next few months...
#1786 of 2170 Re: Made the mistake.... [lr3rx8]
Mar 18, 2008 (6:35 am)
I'm with Spirit on this one. The RX-8 is a sporty coupe at best, a "chick car" at worst. I say that tongue in cheek, being female myself. But I don't think $100k of track tuning will put the RX-8 in the category of a Porsche Boxster S, Cayman S or even a Honda S2000 on the track. And I'll leave it up to you to describe how you (a big guy) manage to get 4 adults in an RX-8. A girlfriend of mine that has one claims that the backseat of my 911S isn't that much smaller than hers. Neither are a place for full size adults, according to her.
I too, do not like to advise other people on how to spend their hard earned dollars. But if I had the choice between spending $65k on a 2-3 year old 911S vs. two used RX-8's with $20k of aftermarket modifications for one, it would be a damn easy decision for me. Kind of like buying Goldman Saks over Countrywide Financial, speaking of the market.
#1787 of 2170 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [spiritinthesky]
Mar 18, 2008 (6:53 am)
Went to the dealership, drove the 911 Cab, I am in love with the car. Bad news is that if I go new it could take three to four months to get the car. He had one on the lot a new 2007 Cab 4S which he claimed was invoiced at 114,000 and it was "discounted" to 99,000. I don't have the options list. It is going above my 85k budget, but I was wondering if it was worth it. Any thoughts?
#1788 of 2170 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [gtmaguire]
Mar 18, 2008 (12:21 pm)
The price is incredible on the C4S Cab, but only if it was a 2008. It is a year old and you'll get some more depreciation from it when you drive off the lot. It simply isn't worth the money they are asking for it right now.
I've got an idea for you. I currently have a 2007 C2 Cab with 4,400 miles on it for $82,795. This vehicle is certified and that adds an additional 2 years or up to 100,000 miles on the warranty. (That's bumper to bumper.) In addition, this is a transferrable warranty.
If you'd be interested in this vehicle, then the hosts can pass along my information to you. I do work for a Porsche dealership!
Edit: Just FYI, the dealership I work for is seventh in the nation for volume. That means that we have a much better selection to choose from both new and preowned. I can help!
#1789 of 2170 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [madmanmoo]
Mar 18, 2008 (2:00 pm)
Not to get in the middle of your "negotiations" with gtmaguire, but how in the world is your "idea" a better deal for him??
He has been offered a $15k discount from MSRP on a heavily optioned ($15k+ of options) NEW leftover 2007 C4S Cab. I'm not sure what options your base (non-S) C2 Cab has on it, but the base MSRP on that car was under $83k new and most of the ones I have seen are lightly optioned compared to the C2S or C4S models. Assuming your car had $7-10k in options, it may have stickered for around $90-$93k.
I don't know about you, but from a "value" standpoint, I'd much rather have a new car with a $15k discount and break it in myself than get a $7-10k discount on a used car with 4,400 miles on the odometer.
Absolute price constraints aside, you'd have to offer him that used C2 Cab for something like $70-73k before it was a competitive deal to the $15k discount on a new C4S. Don't get me wrong, if you can get $83k for a used car that only stickered for about $90-92k, I'd be the first to congratulate you. It means my C2S cab may be worth more than I thought.
#1790 of 2170 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [habitat1]
Mar 18, 2008 (5:25 pm)
Thanks for both of your posts. I need more information from Moo about the 07' The host can forward your information to me. Where are you located? The price seems high unless there are some very nice options. Based upon what I want options wise I can get a new for about 9k more. You may have seen my posts and see where I stand on price.
So you think the C4S is a decent deal? I e-mailed the dealer for the options package to get a better idea on the car. Only down side is, it is not the color I like. I wanted midnight blue......