Last post on Oct 24, 2013 at 5:25 PM
You are in the Porsche 911
What is this discussion about?
Porsche 911, Porsche Carrera GT, Coupe, Convertible
#1777 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? What to do??? Kids too! [habitat1]
Mar 07, 2008 (5:17 pm)
Thanks so much to everyone so far for the advice. I am so torn about the car. I feel like buying the full size Range Rover is so much more logical. On the other hand, I really want to get the Porsche. Ironically, my wife thinks I am being ridiculous. She says just buy the Porsche. The price is an obstacle for me. I buy my cars outright and I have a hard time with going over 85 thousand. Particularly since I am buying her a new Range Rover Sport. 150 thousand for two cars cars really bothers my Irish frugality... and yes I know that sounds ridiculous......
So. If you had to choose a used 911 cabriolet for $85k or less and a 2004 Land Rover Discovery as your back up car, or a new fully loaded 08' Range Rover. (don't forget the two kids) What would you do? Ok, I have also looked into a used 2007 Maserati $84K, my wife thinks they are boring.
Oh and I am 5'9, wife is 5'3", thanks habitat1, I had almost started to rule out the Porsche. You have given me hope!
Also for amusement purposes only: wife to me"you can't do anything in moderation ever", my response "Moderation is for quitters!"
#1778 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? What to do??? Kids too! [gtmaguire]
Mar 08, 2008 (5:15 am)
Factor in reliability issues. Range Rover has some less than stellar quality ratings. The same goes for Maserati. You may save a little money, but are you going to be happy when you're in and out of the shop constantly?
If your kids fit in the 911, then go with it!
#1779 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? What to do??? Kids too! [gtmaguire]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Mar 08, 2008 (9:06 am)
You'll just have trouble with the Discovery I think and the depreciation on Rover is brutal. Look ANY new car you buy is not an "investment" and ANY new car you buy cannot be justified in terms of "common sense". If we all had common sense we'd be buying 2-3 year old cream puffs with service records, super low miles and an excellent reputation for reliability, and let the other guy suffer the depreciation that starts the minute you drive off the lot.
But having something that nice and brand new, which is yours from the get-go, has a definite allure.
#1780 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying?
Mar 08, 2008 (6:38 pm)
Ok, I have made the decision Porsche it is! I am going to keep our old Discovery as the back up car if I need to drive the kids anywhere. I clocked day care to my house it is 1.1 miles, I could just go home switch cars and get the kids. I also rationalized that with gas prices skyrocketing, the Range Rover was a waste of money. Ok, I am admittedly looking for an excuse, but still I do hate paying 100 bucks to fill up my car every week. Wife is getting her RR Sport anyway soooooo..... Going to the dealership on Sunday to take a 911 for a drive and start the process. So, I am still on the fence about the new or used thing. I could do a new coupe without pushing my psychological threshold of 85k, but I really want the conv. Suggestions? I think leasing may not be right for me, but I wanted to hear if anyone had a different view on it. I plan on keeping the car for three to five years. I am planning on buying the car outright. But, I was wondering if in three years or so if I want to get a new one does the car retain more value as a trade in or if I just leased? Or which is more realistic and honestly more likely, I will have to get a sedan or another SUV, with having older bigger kids, I may just have to sell it anyway (or hide it from my wife somewhere!). I went to the Porsche website and did a three year 12k mile lease for 54,000 total payments. I also wanted to know what to expect about the negotiation in the dealership. I have looked at cars.com and carsdirect and they both basically list the MSRP price as the price of the vehilce. What should I expect when it comes to haggling over the price of the car? I was planning on going to about 4 or 5 dealerships to compare pricing.
Oh, sorry for the length of my posts, but thanks for the advice that you folks have given me. I hope to have my car by April
#1781 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [gtmaguire]
Mar 09, 2008 (4:01 am)
A few responses:
Leasing: It sounds like you are somewhat similar to me. I always pay cash for my cars, figuring I'll bite the bullet once and be done with it. If I was looking at a BMW I might consider leasing, as they offer great lease rates/subsidies. Porsche doesn't. I would have been stroking a check for about $1,600 per month on mine and that would have taken some of the fun out of it for me.
Coupe vs. Cab: Where do you live? Climate? As I said, my purchse of the 911 was based on it being a sports car the whole family can enjoy. The Cab does run $10k more than the coupe, but the joy of driving around on a nice day with the top down and the girls hair flowing in the wind is priceless. The coupe is more of a track ready car (no added roll bars required), but for public road fun, the Cab is hard to beat.
Base vs. S: The initial cost difference looks like $10k, but the S gives you Xenon, PASM, 19" wheels and a couple of other goodies in addition to the more powerful engine. Net difference for the engine is about $5,400. After driving a base 911 a few weeks ago, I think the S is worth it. If you go the base route, I would seriously consider the PASM (Adjustable suspension) option. The base car I drove was harsh over bumps compared to my "normal" setting, but still not as tight around the curves as the S set to "sport". Noticable difference.
Price negotiation: Good news, Porsche sales are down 12% so far this year and the lousy economy/stock market is on your side. Also, the 997 model has now been out for awhile, compared to when I bought. Bad news, we are heading into prime spring season for buying a Cab, so dealers might be less inclined to heavily discount. I picked up my 2005 off the showroom floor in September 2005 as the 2006's were on the boat. Perfect time to negotiate - and I got a decent discount off from a dealer in Baltimore. But even at that time, some of the DC area dealers were trying to hold to near MSRP. Use Porsche's website to check out dealer inventory online, before you walk in.
Options: Don't get bent out of shape over the 20 page option list. If you are oredering a new car, keep it simple.
My car: 2005 997 S Cab, Seal grey, Black Leather Seats, Power memory seats, Navigation, Bose, 6-CD changer, Porsche Sport Exhaust, Sport Chrono, heated seats, self dim mirrors, etc. Current MSRP for an identical 2008 model = $107,385. New 9/27/05 (29+ months). 18,200 miles. Broken-in to perfection. My daughters will kill me if I sell it, but the stone mason is tempting me with added ideas (costs) for our new house. So slip me $ 72,995 and I'll even split you on the cost of an extended warranty to take you past a new car warranty! But you have to take care of it and give me a right of first refual to buy it back when you are done in 3-5 years.
#1782 of 2175 Made the mistake....
Mar 15, 2008 (7:35 pm)
of just trying a Porsche for fit. Now I'm a tall guy, and even taller from the hips up - like someone 6'8". I've owned Mazda's as sports cars,the last a 2004 RX8 I got new for just $24K - my daughter shifts it now as her daily driver - now with almost 70K miles on it. Bought the RX8 mainly b/c I fit in it - no other sports car allowed it at that time - I didn't want a convertable anyway, corvette was too small.for me. So I'm driving and turn into the nearest Porsche dealer here in Atlanta - Jim Ellis. Try the Cayman on for size - and its a no-go. The sales guy says try this Targa 4S... fits like a glove! Now I couldn't even get the sunroof version of the RX-8 because of my size - and in the Targa and later a 2S, I'm feeling incredibly giddy. But common sense takes over when he asks me if I want to take it for a spin. Same thing got me to buy a LR3 for my wife a couple years ago, and I don't want to cash in any of my losing investments... So I say no.
Now I've yearning for a new sports car... RX-8 was as nice a handling car as I've ever owned - I could really fling it around in the Georgia mountains - and I could buy 2 of them for the price of the engineering excellence the Porsche 911 offers... A also notice lots of folks don't use the 911's as daily drivers, and while I wouldn't need to I would not have and qualms using the rotary rocket as a D-D, but what about the Porsche?
Help! Can you guys talk me out of or into the Porsche?
#1783 of 2175 Re: Made the mistake.... [lr3rx8]
Mar 16, 2008 (4:12 am)
So I say no.
Good thing you did (say no), or you'd have a much more serious dilemma. When I drove an RX-8 a few years ago with my niece who was car shopping, we both thought it was pretty soft in handling and performance compared to a Honda S2000, let alone anything by Porsche. I'm not anti Japanese - that S2000 was a legitimate competitor against the Boxster back then, but franlky, the RX8 is just a "sporty" coupe by comparison, not a serious sports car.
The bad news is the 911 C2S will set you back about 3-4 times (not 2) the price of an RX-8. The good news is that it's worth it. As for daily driving, the "S" model, with standard PASM is the way to go - or get PASM as an option on a base car. That allows you to toggle between a normal and sport suspension setting, meaning that you don't have to lose your fillings going over bumpy roads to the grocery store. With PASM, the 997 model 911 is probably the most "daily driveable" of any serious sports car out there. I have put as many miles on my 2007 Turbo over the past 16 months as I have on my M5 during that time, with the M5 only getting some of those miles when I need to carry more than 1 adult passenger.
I won't try to talk you into or out of a $80k-$100k+ decision. But I will suggest you consider the C2, C2S or even S Cabriolet over the C4S Targa. I am not a fan of how AWD adds weight and dulls the responsiveness of the Turbo (which I am trading for a GT2). And the Targa roof is sort of the worst of both worlds - adds a lot to the wieght of the car compared to the coupe, but doesn't offer the true open air feel of the Cabriolet. Good luck.
#1784 of 2175 Re: New or Used Porsche??? Lease or Own? Tips for Buying? [habitat1]
Mar 16, 2008 (4:20 am)
Parting with a loaded 2 1/2 year old $107k Cab S with only 18k miles for $73k?! Sounds like you are offering a heck of a deal - that stone mason that is building your new house must be something! Personally, I think you should keep it for that price - you could probably drive it for another year and only lose $5k more in resale.
#1785 of 2175 Re: Made the mistake.... [spiritinthesky]
Mar 17, 2008 (1:10 pm)
Yes I know the diff is price is a bit significant... even if I go with a 2005 2S. I was thinking maybe to go the two car route (Get a older 2004 RX-8 and have it track tuned for $20K+ and get another newer one for daily driver....At least with the mazda I can fit four adults if I have too... But I still may keep looking for that magical 2S with PASM for 60K. Gotta see how the market does in the next few months...
#1786 of 2175 Re: Made the mistake.... [lr3rx8]
Mar 18, 2008 (5:35 am)
I'm with Spirit on this one. The RX-8 is a sporty coupe at best, a "chick car" at worst. I say that tongue in cheek, being female myself. But I don't think $100k of track tuning will put the RX-8 in the category of a Porsche Boxster S, Cayman S or even a Honda S2000 on the track. And I'll leave it up to you to describe how you (a big guy) manage to get 4 adults in an RX-8. A girlfriend of mine that has one claims that the backseat of my 911S isn't that much smaller than hers. Neither are a place for full size adults, according to her.
I too, do not like to advise other people on how to spend their hard earned dollars. But if I had the choice between spending $65k on a 2-3 year old 911S vs. two used RX-8's with $20k of aftermarket modifications for one, it would be a damn easy decision for me. Kind of like buying Goldman Saks over Countrywide Financial, speaking of the market.