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Coupes & Convertibles Porsche 911 Porsche 911
2048 messages, Last post on Aug 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM
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Replying to: esf (Oct 25, 2006 6:35 pm) "Is the performance difference between the C2 and the C2S monumental enough to fork over the extra $12,000?" First, the MSRP difference is $10,200, not $12,000. Second, that price gives you a fair number of items with the S model that are optional on the base 911: 1. Porsche active suspension management (PASM) - $1,990. (toggle between normal and sport suspension) 2. 19" (vs. 18") Carerra S style wheels and tires - $1,550. (70% looks / 30% performance, unless you go to the track) 3. Bi-Xenon headlights - $1,090. (a near must have) 4. Sport steering wheel - $250. (nice) 5. Brake calipers in Red - $1,690. (ouch!?) Plus, a few other cosmetic differences with respect to the guages, aluminum door trim, etc. If you add up the first four items, they total $4,900. Meaning that, if you were to want/order all of those items, the difference to get the "S" model with the 3.8 liter engine would be an additional $5,300. The difference would only be $3,610 if you went all the way and ordered the $1,690 red brake calipers, but that's a little overboard if you ask me. I would not describe the performance difference between any non-turbo 911 models as "monumental". But it is definitely noticable. I've been very satisfied with my well equiped (but well discounted) C2S Cabriolet. But so has one of my distant neighbors with his $15k less, lightly optioned C2 Coupe. You are doing the right thing in starting your research early. Fortunately, now that the 997 model has been out for nearly 2 years, you should be able to find a decent selection of pre-owned ones to test drive. As everyone here knows, I'm a big fan of the $920 sport chrono option which, when the sport part is activated, results in quicker throttle response and more sensitive braking. But I am sure the group would love to hear from someone other than me what they think of it. So please report back. |
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Replying to: esf (Oct 25, 2006 6:35 pm) However, if you are considering the a cabriolet vs. targa, you should be aware that, at least as far as I know, the targa will only come in the AWD "4" version. Before ordering, I considered and test drove pre-owned versions of the C2, C2S, C4, C4S coupes and the C2S and C4S cab. What my test drives told me - and my brother (former Porsche racing team engineer) agrees - is that the extra weight and drive train loss of the "4" completely offsets the additional power of the "S". In other words, forget Porsche's conservative published performance ratings that show the "2" and the "4" neck and neck. The C2S is noticably quicker off the line than the C4S. As a matter of fact, the C2 (non S) is just as quick as the C4S. If you drove a C2S Cabriolet back to back with a Targa 4S, I would expect the former to feel noticably quicker. Obviously, the "4" provides some advantage over the "2" in inclement weather and snow. But even here in Boston, I did not want to give up the lighter weight, feel and performance of the "2" for the AWD capability of the "4". As far as dry pavement, the new 997 has to be pushed to extreme limits for the "4" to kick in a transfer of more power to the front wheels. I've taken two Porsche performance driving schools and I was unable to do that on the roads I did my test drives on. The "2" was very buttoned down and comfortable in everything I threw at it. Also, if you go for the base model, I recommend checking the PASM option box. It is one of the most significant improvements in going from the 996 to 997.
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This past summer I made some inquries here about Tiptronic and I never followed through with any purchase. Now that the Targa is upon us, I have a deposit in place on an '07 Targa 4S, pretty well-loaded. Here's the catch . . . it has the Tiptronic S. I've always been a manual shifter with my sports cars, but I've had some conversations in these last days that are incredibly supportive of the Porsche Tiptronic. The buttons are on the steering wheel itself, I am told, and the shift is almost instantaneous while hands are still on the wheel. I am also told that the "connection" to a car that I am used to with the conventional manual is not lost with this type of racing shifter, and that in some ways, there is even more of a connection (when using it in manual mode, of course). I've also been told that when using the car as a daily driver, the Tiptronic offers the driver a bit of a break from constant shifting when stuck in traffic. I live in California, so traffic can be a consideration at times. Can I get a reality check from you folks here? I typically post on the HELM forum, but this question deserves to be right here where you guys know these cars best. I need feedback about this Tiptronic S. Pros and Cons. The dealer has told me I am under no obligation, if I want a manual transmission, all I have to do is take the next one, instead of this one. So this is my chance to get my facts together. Thanks, TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 26, 2006 4:54 pm) From your posting above it seems that you're actually talking yourself into the Tiptronic!  Stop right there! "I've always been a manual shifter with my sports cars" Go with your gut and listen to yourself! Stick with a stick  You've also heard the expression "good things come to those who wait." Wait for a stick and it will be a good thing I Promise! While I'm sure Porsche's Tiptronic is decent as far as Automatics go, it is an expensive option with a power robbing torque converter. Drive a manual transmissioned 911 and the slushbox back to back to see which one suits you best. |
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Replying to: redsoxgirl (Oct 26, 2006 5:22 am) Did you get a Sports Odometer? (joke) I mean Boston to Bar Harbor and back should be more than 550 miles. |
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Replying to: blckislandguy (Oct 26, 2006 5:53 pm) Very perceptive! I meant to say we went to Boothbay Harbor, where some frinds have a place. We did head up to Bar Harbor on Saturday, but not in my car, as there were 6 of us. Tagman: On the Tiptronic, it's getting favorable press lately because it's faster than the manual transmission - on the Turbo. That is NOT the same tiptronic that is on the standard 911. The non-Turbo tiptronic is Ok with upshifts, not so good with downshifts. Do not confuse the two. If you enjoy a 6-speed, I could not see spending $3,400 on a Tiptronic that will make your experience less involved. The clutch in the 997 is very easy to modulate and, unless you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic 3 hours a day, should pose no problem. If you are stuck in that kind of traffic, maybe you should get a Prius, not a 911. Within 2 years, the tiptronic will likely be replaced on all or most models with the DSG. That, according to my brother, will be the transmission to have if you don't want a manual. |
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Replying to: redsoxgirl (Oct 27, 2006 6:35 am) Yeah, for me, that's what it's about. I like to really connect to a car when I'm driving. My previous Porsches and other sports cars were ALL sticks, without exception. Sounds like the Tiptronic would be a big mistake I would regret, and I surely wouldn't want that to happen. Thanks for the feedback. TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 27, 2006 7:04 am) |
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 26, 2006 4:54 pm) Much less fun More to go wrong & expensive to repair or replace Difficult to sell |
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Thanks for a number of balanced posts regarding the Tiptronic. I almost had myself convinced to just take it, since the first Targa is to have one, but a little patience, and a good side-by-side comparison would be better. Frankly, I probably don't even need the comparison, since I've ALWAYS had the stick in the past, I think it is realistic to just get the 6-speed manual. It might also be better to wait just a little while for the first few cars to sell, because the initial demand might be too high for a Targa . . . but I'm not sure. TagMan |
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