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Coupes & Convertibles Porsche 911 Porsche 911
1934 messages, Last post on Jun 18, 2008 at 8:43 AM
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 16, 2008 9:56 am) Keep us posted.  -moo |
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Replying to: habitat1 (May 13, 2008 8:26 pm) If I recall my Porsche history correctly, the 928 was indeed intended to replace the 911, as Porsche was anticipating problems in getting an aircooled motor to meet the pollution standards of the day. Do keep in mind that both the 928 and the 911 can be considered to be 2-door coupes with "2+2" seating, and particularly in its day, the sports car paradigm was that a V8 motor was preferred than any 6. They underestimated their consumer's preference for the 911, and as a result, the 911 soldiered on (and eventually became water cooled) and the 928 died. What probably didn't help the 928, particularly in resale value, is that there were some (cough!) interesting design elements to it - - my understanding is that part of the wiring harness under the dash was semi-visible to the passenger compartment, so in order to avoid making it be a distraction, they chose to make all of these wires be black. Needless to say, trying to trace one black wire out of a forest of black wires makes for a nightmare to track down an electrical gremlin. There's been some on-again, off-again efforts to bring back a 928-esque model, the most recent one being the Panamerica 4 door coupe, IIRC. -hh
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (May 26, 2008 9:05 am) The good news is that the introduction of the Cayenne is what pretty much prompted the 'rear engine aircooled' contingent to finally accept the 914 as a 'real' Porsche, despite its VW heritage.  The great thing about a Porsche 911 type is that if you buy it new or slightly used and take really good care of it, it will be running years---decades---after every Ferrari or Corvette or other "supercar" has either gone to the breaker or to the restoration shop for a resurrection. I can vouch for this. Around 1992, I bought a 1985 911 for $19.5K. As per NADA claimed values, its now worth around $18K...its depreciated by a whopping $2K over 15 years. A 911 may cost you $150 a month to keep happy, but a Ferrari will cost you $1.50 a mile, at least. And that's a number I have carefully researched. Over the past 15 years, I've gone through a couple of sets of tires, repaired & updated the A/C from R-12 to R-134, replaced the sunroof gasket, replaced the 915 transmission synchros (and clutch, while it was open), plus other miscellany...all told, probably still under $10,000 in total maintenance costs. Adding in the above depreciation (but not counting gasoline or insurance), I'm still at less than $1000/year, although there are a couple of asthetic items that I have to decide if to drop the coin to take care of: shrink cracks in the vinyl dashboard ($3K labor), and the leather on the driver's seat is just about at its end of life. But then again, what does one really expect for a 23 year old car? Well, just this past weekend, my wife asked if I might want to drive it from NJ to TN next summer. That should give you an idea of how solid its mechanicals are. -hh
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Replying to: huntzinger (Jun 17, 2008 11:51 am)
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Hey Huntzinger! I haven't seen you post in a few years! Good to see you're still around.
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Replying to: huntzinger (Jun 17, 2008 11:39 am) The "problem" with the 928, if you want to call it that, was that it was relatively heavy, more luxurious, but not particularly nimble, and really never was perceived as a sports car. It was always a GT car. If it were around today, it might be viewed as competition for the BMW 650i/M6 or even the AM V8, but not the 911 or Ferrari 430. According to my dealer, the 928 buyers were more inclined to be higher income versions of 924/944/968 buyers. But not someone who came in looking specifically at the 911 as a "sports car" purchase.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 17, 2008 12:29 pm) I agree, although my more generalized complaint is that IMO, NADA book values seem to always be overly optimistic. In general, I figure that it would cost be around $5K to correctly restore the two current cosmetic shortcomings. As I alluded to, the killer on the dash is the huge amount of labor involved, as the dash can only be removed after the windshield has been popped out (hopefully without breaking it). In general, the remedial fix used on most cars in this vintage has been to cover it up by throwing on a dashboard rug or skin. The skin is the better solution, but my dash is blue and as of the last time that I checked, only black skins are currently in production. The local independent Porsche shop has the availability of this part on their 'watch list' for me. I don't think any performance car amortizes as well over the years as a Porsche 911. Agreed, and this was my point. Even with my current cosmetic shortcomings, the absolute worst case is to claim that its worth literally zero, which works out for me to an average rate of depreciation of $100/month over my ownership timeline. -hh |
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Replying to: nyccarguy (Jun 17, 2008 6:13 pm) Now where did that old "I don't like SUVs why do you?" thread disappear to? Its needed more now than ever! Things have been busy with us over the last couple of years - a lot of work stuff, but some personal downtime too; (my newer photography website if you're interested). We're getting back into a car-buying cycle for the Mrs, so I've been poking around Edmunds again...maybe next year, she'll let me trade in my '85 for a 997, although I've been sniffing at Caymans for awhile too. Remind me to tell you of my visit to the Mercedes & Porsche museums and Porsche factory too last September - - unfortunately no photos inside, as they were manufacturing the 2008s but hadn't done the press release for them yet. -hh |
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jun 18, 2008 5:09 am) I can certainly agree with that, particularly as how you go on to mention about it being an "upsell" for potential 924/944/968 buyers. I think that what Porsche overlooked is that while they did have a customer demographic who wanted more luxury, a stronger contingent of these consumers desired the marquee benchmark (the 911), but could only afford the 944's lower price point. As the 944 (and 968) creeped up in price, the price gap to the 911 narrowed, which resulted in self-canabalizing sales and the inevitable discontinuation of the 4-cyl {924/944/944T/968} product line. I suspect that the Boxster has been mostly successful in avoiding this fate through a careful product-price placement combination of lower price and being a convertible, which tends to move its price point comparison from the 911 coupe to the higher priced 911 Targa and/or 911 Convertible. FWIW, I do find it interesting that today, that the cheapest new Porsche isn't the Boxster or Cayman, but is actually the Cayenne SUV. -hh
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Replying to: huntzinger (Jun 18, 2008 8:23 am) Perhaps there's some crossover between a Boxster S and a 911 type, but if you poll the demographics for each type of car, especially non-S vs. 911 type, you'll notice a distinct difference I think in most cases. Not many women are fond of the 911 as an everyday driver IMO. But yeah, Porsche gets the best of both worlds with these two different types. I'd still drive 928s if they weren't such maintenance hogs. Fabulous car. |
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