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Toyota Prius -vs- Scion tc

23 messages,  Last post on Sep 18, 2006 at 11:58 PM

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What is this discussion about? Scion tC, Toyota Prius, Hybrid Cars

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#14 of 23 TC vs Prius by karport Sep 15, 2006 (5:11 pm)
There are so many differences between these 2 cars that it is difficult to take the question serious.   Price, Performance, Complexity, Style come to mind.   Buying a Hybrid is a risky proposition especially once the Warrantee is gone. Complex electrical system, expensive battery on top of the normal mechanical underpinnings. For those looking at the price of gas, do the math and figure out how many miles you will have to drive (making an assumption on the price of gas) and you are looking at likely 2 to 4 years before you see any real savings.   By the time that happens (savings) you have a used car that will no doubt be expensive to maintain.   Having said that, the ride and performance are totally different between the cars.   I strongly suggest anyone considering a Hybrid sit down with a calcuator paper and pencil and do some math so that they understand the real economics. However if money is not a issue, a hybrid is a nice green thing to do. Replies to this message: terry92270 (Sep 15, 2006 6:52 pm) pathstar1 (Sep 16, 2006 7:18 am) stevedebi (Sep 18, 2006 2:27 pm)
#15 of 23 Re: TC vs Prius [karport] by terry92270 Sep 15, 2006 (6:52 pm)
Replying to: karport (Sep 15, 2006 5:11 pm) "Buying a Hybrid is a risky proposition especially once the Warrantee is gone. Complex electrical system, expensive battery on top of the normal mechanical underpinnings."   I am really sorry, but the facts simply do not support that statement. There is little in the way of "brand new" technology in the Prius or Camry Highbrids. The warranty on the battery is for the minimum it is expected to last.   Basic: 36 months/36,000 miles (all components other than normal wear and maintenance items).   Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles.   Are there really that many people out there who keep a car longer than 5 or 6 years? No, the sales statistics tell us. Replies to this message: pathstar1 (Sep 16, 2006 7:18 am) stevedebi (Sep 18, 2006 2:27 pm)
#16 of 23 Re: TC vs Prius [terry92270] by pathstar1 Sep 16, 2006 (7:18 am)
Replying to: terry92270 (Sep 15, 2006 6:52 pm) Further, the battery isn't that expensive, especially as it lasts for 8 years (under warranty - and will probably go a lot longer). Currently it's around $2000 - $3000. That's $250 to $375 per year using the 8 yr number. It's things like the MFD (multi function display) that are not covered for more than 3 yrs that can be expensive. However, most vehicles have components like that. Price out a stock audio system replacement for your chosen vehicle. Or how about the ECU? Make sure you're sitting down.   At any rate, you can extend the warranty for another four years for $990. It probably will not be needed, but if you're a worrying kind, it's peace of mind for $250 per year.   These ARE Toyotas we're talking about. Most will never know the warranty details as they will never need them.
#17 of 23 No Problem by karport Sep 16, 2006 (10:36 am)
The $250 dollars extra a year pays for about 100 gallons of gas. For a reasonable car figure 20 to 25 miles per gallon that means an additional 2,000 miles you have to drive (additional) just to ammoritize that cost. Then figure out the premium you had to pay for that car and if I accept that most people don't keep it for more than 3 years (your statement not mine, the average person (again your words) will never make up the savings, unless gas goes to $5 a gallon. While the battery may have that extended warrantee the rest of the electrical system will not. However time will tell. Replies to this message: terry92270 (Sep 16, 2006 11:21 am) pathstar1 (Sep 16, 2006 1:52 pm)
#18 of 23 Re: No Problem [karport] by terry92270 Sep 16, 2006 (11:21 am)
Replying to: karport (Sep 16, 2006 10:36 am) Actually, the added costs of an extended warranty can be better quantified....   There are plenty of studies showing that upon sale, purchasers of them more than make back the dollars spent on increased resale value.
#19 of 23 Re: No Problem [karport] by pathstar1 Sep 16, 2006 (1:52 pm)
Replying to: karport (Sep 16, 2006 10:36 am) First, there is no way to document the hybrid Prius is more expensive than if it was a "normal" car. In fact, if you compare luggage capacity and passenger room, it's about the same size inside as a Camry. It's about the same price as a "normal" Camry as well. I do admit it -should- probably have $2000-$4000 more on the sticker than if it was "normal". But there is no way to prove that.   The size issue alone was enough to convince me it was a cool car. Corolla size on the outside, Camry size on the inside. Add to that it's a "computer". Very cool. Add to that it has just about the lowest emissions you can get. Add to that the smug factor of increadable mileage.   If these things don't convince you, don't buy one. Just don't try to tell the rest of us you're right and we're wrong. Only history will decide that!   Now, we do have short memories don't we? When do you think gas will be $5 a gallon? I'd say in a year or two. Sure it's falling right now. It went up even faster just a few months ago! When it gets to the $5 area just try to join the bandwagon scrambling for more economical cars. Getting a Prius now is hard enough!   Oh, and I personally don't plan on buying the extended warranty. I like the odds of the gamble it is unnecessary. I've made that gamble on every new Japanese car I've purchased in the last 24 years and won (Subaru - 7 years ownership, Toyota 4Runner - 11 years ownership, Nissan Pathfinder - 6 years so far). Put me down as $5000 ahead, including interest.
#20 of 23 Re: TC vs Prius [terry92270] by stevedebi Sep 18, 2006 (2:27 pm)
Replying to: terry92270 (Sep 15, 2006 6:52 pm) "Are there really that many people out there who keep a car longer than 5 or 6 years? No, the sales statistics tell us."   Wow, according to that statistic, there should be no cars on the road older than 6 years. Oh, not so? Well, then the longevity of the vehicle will matter a whole lot to the next owner who won't have the luxury of a 10 year / 150K warranty, and has to consider the possibile replacement of a battery or other electronic component.   Some people are mislead by the current resale values, which are artifically inflated by the popularity and (relative) scarcity of hybrids. When the current crop of hybrids is nearing end of ownership, the newer hybrids will (hopefully) be far better and more plentiful.   I concur with the original statement, which I will repeat here:   "Buying a Hybrid is a risky proposition especially once the Warrantee is gone. Complex electrical system, expensive battery on top of the normal mechanical underpinnings."   Riskier for the 2nd and subsequent owners, and resale value.
#21 of 23 Re: Solution [moor1984] by stevedebi Sep 18, 2006 (2:30 pm)
Replying to: moor1984 (Sep 19, 2005 7:12 am) "I've got a solution: Why doesn't Toyota just make a HYBRID tC? It would be the first truly cool looking hybrid on the market, and with the tC's already high fuel economy, it would be amazingly cheap on gas."   The batteries would eat up a lot of room in a small car. Unlike the Prius, the tC was not designed from the ground up to house the hybrid components. The Camry gets away with it because it is larger (and even then it eats up 1/3 of the trunk space).
#22 of 23 Hybrid by karport Sep 18, 2006 (7:30 pm)
A Hybrid by definition means that you have both an electrical drive and combustion engine drive. It would be difficult to believe that with this complexity will come high cost to maintain.   The people who have had to pay for repairs (higher mileage over warantee) rationalize the higher costs by all the so called savings they are getting.   However if you feel paying list (likely over $30K) for a hybrid car is good deal, its a matter of choice. Me I look at data and numbers and don't see the economics.   There have been quite a few reviews and analysis published to give you information to act on. Replies to this message: terry92270 (Sep 18, 2006 11:58 pm)
#23 of 23 Re: Hybrid [karport] by terry92270 Sep 18, 2006 (11:58 pm)
Replying to: karport (Sep 18, 2006 7:30 pm) Maybe you need to read more.   Even Consumers Union has reversed itself, and now says Hybrids like the Prius and Camry will save anyone money.   You can get a Prius OR Camry Hybrid well under 30K....check Edmunds.

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