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Ford Mustang, Ford Mustang SVT Cobra, Coupe, Convertible
#597 of 1125 Re: Used GT's Are as Rare as Hen's Teeth, Just Like the New Ones [graphicgu
Jan 19, 2006 (12:37 pm)
I see the same false conclusion to why buyers can't locate the manual GT version Mustangs. it is not that there is a high demand for this model, it is because there are so few being produced with the options wanted. There are many Mustangs in the dealership lots here in the metro DC area because they are either V6 automatics or models that the few thousand on the present waiting lists do not want and other potential customers are not willing to pay the high prices the dealers are still attempting to get. It has to do with poor planning by the manufacturer and it's failure to look at the play-book of the 1964/65 Mustang launch. Lets face it, the Mustang is a basic production vehicle that should not have been marketed with such huge mark-ups that did not benefit the manufacturer's bottom line. These vehicles should have been reasonably priced as the production vehicle that they are to move them off the lot no matter which model was chosen. Having a situation where there are limited manual v8's or an unwillingness to offer GT packages for the 6's was truly a monumental blunder on the manufacturing side. The baby boomers such as myself who decided to wait and see how prices etc. worked in the future, feel we made a good decision in waiting. I have a 2004 GT premium with the manual tranny and have had to date over 20,000 happy and uneventful miles. Chrysler is following in the same sorry marketing model as Ford by limiting the availability of the Charger Hemi and pricing them quite high with mark-ups. Moving volumes of regular production models that mimic styles of the past is the way to go to maufacturer profitability. Marketing these vehicles as limited production models is a "fool-hardy" marketing plan at best. This is why you can go to any of the Ford dealers I have visited and see loads of unsold Mustangs languishing on the lot. It also doesn't help to have new vehicles produced at such a pace only to be plagued by annoying later repairs due to slopping workmanship or design. Bring back the old marketing professionals and keep the hard driving college kids out of the decision process and we will all have a good and profitable time.
#598 of 1125 Ford Knows Exactly What Will Sell
Jan 19, 2006 (1:17 pm)
The only unsold Mustangs I've seen "languishing" on dealers' lots are V6's and a few Rousche's. Don't believe me? Go online or pick up a phone and check out what dealers have available for sale.
I disagree about the above criticism of Ford's strategy. Putting a car into production is a multimillion, if not billion, dollar proposition, included in which is very careful, very expensive market research. Projections of the precise price point most likely to generate the greatest sales have been very very carefully worked out.
Ford is currently running TV ads for the Mustang. Featured prominently in those ads is the GT. But that doesn't mean they're out to sell GT's? Far from it. They're using the GT to lure customers, to create the image, the mystique, knowing full well that the consumer market for higher-priced high-performance V8's with manual transmissions is limited compared to the broader, deeper market for the much cheaper V6's. The long-term consumer market for Mustangs lies with the V6, not the GT. The GT, by comparison, represents a specialized niche market, ergo the limited production. It's no coincidence that that has been the pattern with Mustang sales from the beginning.
The GT w/ manual tranny is almost exclusively a male car. The auto tranny V6 is for both sexes, has a broader, more general appeal. You can't make much money with a car that appeals to only half the population.
And look what's out on the road: GT's are relatively rare, even less common than V6 convertibles. The V6's are popping up everywhere. The V6's even outnumber the GT's in these forums, which tend to have a disproportionate number of male enthusiasts.
#599 of 1125 Knowledgable on Ford's Friends & Family Discounts?
Jan 19, 2006 (5:04 pm)
Can someone give me a detailed description of what I can expect from the dealership when I start to wheel and deal for my new 06 GT? I have a X-Plan friends and family discount and the dealership said I would get "above invoice" pricing??? What does that mean?
I have asked and read the difference in discount pricing before but want to understand it so I don't get hoodwinked. 1) I am female 2)I have done my research but still feel "stupid" when talking to sales men. Why do I always feel like I am getting cheated?
Anyway, I have a trade it worth $1,200 (KBB value) - will have cash down - approximately $2,000 or a little more PLUS the X-Plan discount. I am tossing between the GT Premimum or V6 Premimum Convertible. Can someone help? Sorry to keep dwelling on an old subject.
Jan 20, 2006 (6:58 am)
A reporter is looking to speak with someone who purchased a Ford Fusion, Dodge Charger, Chrysler 300 or new Ford Mustang and previously drove an SUV or an import. Please send an e-mail to jfallonedmunds.com no later than Tuesday, January 24, 2005 containing your daytime contact information and a few words about your choices.
Jan 20, 2006 (6:59 am)
You Mustang fans are popular
A reporter is looking to speak with a new Mustang owner who was a fan of the 1960s era Mustang but not the 1980s or 1990s era Mustangs. Please send an e-mail to jfallonedmunds.com no later than Tuesday, January 24, 2005 containing your daytime contact information and a few words about how you feel about the new Mustang.
#602 of 1125 Re: Used GT's Are as Rare as Hen's Teeth, Just Like the New Ones [graphicgu [1panky]
Jan 20, 2006 (7:25 am)
Ford made approximately 60,000+ '05 Mustang GTs (far from being "limited production"). Don't know what '06 production will be, yet. But, since demand is still high, I expect them to make just as many '06s.
But fact is, the reason for the shortage of GTs is demand, pure and simple. Ford can't keep up. Believe me, no one at Ford wants to "short sell" any of their models. If they can build to demand, they'd do so. Ford has only one plant making the Mustangs....and they share that production facility with the Mazda 6's production.
Ford had made 140,000 pre '05 Mustangs. They upped production for '05 models to 150,000. Then, as it became clear that number still wasn't enough, they upped production again to 190,000 units (or full plant capacity). That still didn't meet demand (at least for the GTs). GT production is approximately 30% of all production. They can't produce any more than 30% because the 4.6L engine (as well as many other components) is shared with the SUVs and F-150s (in different states of tune, though).
Dealers set their own prices. Dealers are not required to honor X plan (friends and family), A plan (Ford employee pricing), etc. It's totally up to the dealer. X plan pricing is at or near invoice (depending on model and options). IF you find a dealer that will honor any of the Ford pricing plans for the Mustang GT, jump on it. The vast majority of them won't (but will for slower selling models like the 500, Explorer, F-150, etc).
#603 of 1125 Re: Used GT's Are as Rare as Hen's Teeth, Just Like the New Ones [graphicgu
Jan 20, 2006 (10:02 am)
The two points taken in reply to my earlier posting were interesting and informative. I don't agree with the "Ford knows what it is doing" chorus or that the 60,000 units built is something to "cheer" about. The financial bottom-line of the company demonstrates, that they along with other manufacturers have dropped the ball in this area. It's a good thing a powerful investor as Mr. Kerkorian is not present to breathe urgency in the pending "turn-a-round."
If planned properly, the demand for the Mustang would be present for the entire line and not just one segment of production. Today, you can still drive to work and rarely see a Mustang on the road. This is not a positive sign for a "high-production" model no matter how you look at it.
I am old enough to remember the sales of the first Mustangs in the 60's. All units regardless of model was snapped up. Customers actually followed the delivery trucks to the dealership to purchase one. You saw these cars everywhere even on your street (my street had two!). You couldn't read a magazine without a advertisement of this new offering and this "excitement" continued well-into the '65 year run. This was indeed volume sales and demand at it's best along with professional marketing. This, of course, was before the internet advertising philosophy (post it; and they will come!). The sales numbers then greatly dwarfed the numbers of today's model.
Unfortunately, the pricing of the new models are just too high in my opinion to compete with other offerings. And as for marketing, you don't really see much after the infamous Steve Mc Queen t.v. commercial. The numbers of units still on dealer lots appear to point to this point. There may well be a disconnect in the marketing plan; if there is a plan curentcurrently. a former PR "hack", my "limited" experience tells me that "someone has dropped the ball along the way," as my old boss used to say. I discussion has come up in conversations I have had with several sales personnel at my local dealer during my trips for scheduled maintenance on my '04 GT. They say it would be great if they could provide a more resonablreasonableo clear their lots. The product is present and ready to go but, potential customers are not willing to pay premium prices for six-bangers. Chrysler is also experiencing this situation with the Dodge Charger. The hemi models are in short supply but,their base models are priced too rich for those showing any initial interest.
There are some great offerings coming on line in the near future mimicking the 60's muscle cars from the other manufacturers. Time will tell if their "market-teers" will follow this same, sad pricing guideline. When all is said and done; the fact remains that the manufacturer cannot survive by selling a percentage of a 160K unit run. There is a small window of opportunity for the "excitement" of these types of offerings to ultimately die down and the window is getting smaller as this segment gets crowded by other manufacturers.
#604 of 1125 Mustang GT's not in limited production?
Jan 20, 2006 (1:15 pm)
graphic guy, I would like to know the source for your quote of 60,000 '05 Mustang GT's produced. This seems quite high to me.
In evaluating a company's performance, sales are only one measure. One has to take into account a host of other variables, conveniently termed a "business model," to determine its profitablity. In short, Ford and GM may be riddled with waste and unnecessary costs. The burden of costs added by unionization, as one example, has already been brought up here.
#605 of 1125 Re: Used GT's Are as Rare as Hen's Teeth, Just Like the New Ones [graphicgu [1panky]
Jan 20, 2006 (1:19 pm)
With all due respect "panky", it sounds like your beef is with the dealer for not selling you a Mustang for what YOU want to pay. Not a problem. You keep your dollars. The dealer finds someone else to sell to.
Fact is, the MSRP for an '05+ Mustang GT (non-convertible) will vary from about $26K (standard) to $28+K (premium...all loaded up). To find that kind of style, with performance of 0-60 in under 6 seconds, good handling, many features, is next to impossible. We've debated several times about the Pontiac GTO being similar, but the style is "ho-hum", and it stickers for over $30K. GM has had, and continues to have a hard time selling them....even with rebates.
I've seen V6 Mustangs selling for around the $18K range (base models). While they are much more plentiful than the GTs, I don't see any fire sales on them. Ford certainly hasn't needed to put any incentives on them. Plus, you'll see more of them on the lots because Ford makes 3 times as many V6 Mustangs as they do GTs. The lower price point dictates they'll sell more V6s than they do the costlier GTs.
My former dealer had 6 V6 Mustangs on their lot (no GTs) as of Jan 2-3. They're all gone, now. He's waiting for his next shipment of Mustangs to arrive. It takes him all of 2-3 weeks to turn over his entire Mustang inventory. That's damn good. The story repeats itself with just about every Ford dealer around me....even with snow on the ground when coupe sales are slow.
I'm sure the mix for Chargers is similar to the Mustang. Base models are always more plentiful than the premium models (in this case, the Hemi version) because they produce more base models.
Because you want to buy a GT, but either can't find one, or aren't willing to pay the going rate for one, doesn't mean they aren't priced right. On the contrary...if most people wouldn't buy them at the price asked, supply and demand dictates that the sales price would be lower.
The excitement factor for the Mustang is still high....over a year after they were brought to market. That's why GTs are hard to come by, even though the plant is running at full capacity.
#606 of 1125 Re: Mustang GT's not in limited production? [pony_pirate]
Jan 20, 2006 (1:27 pm)
pirate....at the beginning of the production run of '05 Mustangs, Ford released a PR stating they were ramped up to produce 150,000 Mustangs...of which, 1/3rd would be GTs. When it became clear that the 150,000 production ramp up wouldn't be enough to meet demand, Ford announced they were upping production to 190,000 units. I think there was another PR that stated they would make the split 60% for V6s and 40% GTs for the remainder of the '05 production run (if memory serves, that was sometime in the May/June '05 time frame).
Being conservative, 1/3rd of 190,000 is ~60,000 units for GT production ('05 models). With '06 production in full swing, I expect that 60,000 number is even higher adding together both '05 and '06 GT production, so far.