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Honda Civic GX

1097 messages,  Last post on Sep 06, 2008 at 9:12 AM

You are in the Honda Civic GX (natural gas) Forum.

What is this discussion about? Honda Civic, Alternative Fuels, Hybrid Cars

Messages Page 2 of 110

#8 of 1097 Re: What previous generation? [isellhondas] by blueiedgod

Oct 15, 2004 (5:18 am)

Replying to: isellhondas (Oct 14, 2004 8:26 pm)
The 1996-2000 Honda Civic had a GX. I have seen them offered for public sale at some dealerships.
 
Now if Honda started offering Diesels in the US, they would have me as a customer. And I don't want an Izuzu diesel, like they have in Europe. It would be nice to have a Honda developed diesel, then I can run it on used frying oil. http://www.greasecar.com/ The only side effect is that people behind me get an unexplained carving for french (freedom) fries.

#9 of 1097 O.K. by isellhondas

Oct 15, 2004 (6:55 am)

I know what you mean, they did build a few of these. Our store never sold any.
 
Who knows what the future may bring?

#10 of 1097 A compressed natural gas car? by john500

Oct 15, 2004 (11:07 am)

If you are going to store a flammable compressed gas, the most logical step would be the route of BMW and go directly for hydrogen powered vehicles (zero greenhouse emissions and circumvent the fuel cell). There was a big movement in the 1990's to convert house power from electric to natural gas for cost savings. Ten to twenty years later, the cost differential between natural gas and electric has dropped considerably to power a hot water heater. The same price-stucture phenomenon would occur if natural gas cars came to market. The progression of vehicles shoul go:
1. smaller displacement engines with less vehicle weight
2. gas-electric hybrid vehicles (2007)
3. gas-diesel or diesel-like hybrid vehicles (2009)

#11 of 1097 Re: A compressed natural gas car? [john500] by blueiedgod

Oct 17, 2004 (4:49 am)

Replying to: john500 (Oct 15, 2004 11:07 am)
2. gas-electric hybrid vehicles (2007)
3. gas-diesel or diesel-like hybrid vehicles (2009)
 
Problem with hydrogen program is that you need new infrastructure for refueling, while Honda's GX home buy program includes an adaptor for refueling at home. Problem, as you mentioned with NG is that the resources are limited. Hydrogen in the current state of technology is very expensive to produce. Some of the fuel cell technology allows for "on-site" hydrogen production from less volatile alcohols, and petroleum products.
 
The gas-electric hybrids are not as fuel efficient as people think they are. Yes, on the surface they are producing 50+ MPG, but that is what is visible to the consumer, the production and actual battery charging stages are still consuming energy in vast amounts.
 
Diesel has one advantage at this point, it can be run on renewable vegetable oil, even used vegetable oil. It will not only relieve the waste constraints on the current food industry, but will also benefit the farmers.
http://www.greasecar.com/
Too bad that these efforts are not supported by the current or future US govenment.

#12 of 1097 by electrictroy

Dec 03, 2004 (5:58 am)

"actual battery charging stages are still consuming energy in vast amounts"
 
There's no such thing in hybrids. The battery is charged by the gasoline in your tank... which is computed into the 50 MPG figure.
 
Troy

#13 of 1097 Re: battery charging in Hybrids [electrictroy] by larsb

Dec 03, 2004 (7:33 am)

Replying to: electrictroy (Dec 03, 2004 5:58 am)
quote electrictroy-"The battery is charged by the gasoline in your tank... which is computed into the 50 MPG figure."-end quote
 
ACTUALLY, battery in Hybrids is also charged by braking regeneration. So a small portion of the charging costs NO fuel. Don't forget that...

#14 of 1097 by electrictroy

Dec 03, 2004 (11:25 am)

And THAT comes from the *gasoline* speeding up the car to 60... so you can use your brakes and try to recycle it.
 
ALL the energy ultimately comes from the tank. If the car is brand-new but the tank is empty, you ain't going nowhere.

#15 of 1097 Re: regen saves fuel.... [electrictroy] by larsb

Dec 03, 2004 (1:15 pm)

Replying to: electrictroy (Dec 03, 2004 11:25 am)
You are having a problem understanding how the brake regen process works I think......
 
ALL the energy does NOT come from fuel. Only when the FUEL is being used to charge the battery.
 
Look at it this way: if there was NO REGEN energy captured during braking, would the car use more fuel, or would it use less fuel?
 
(hint: The answer is more fuel.)

#16 of 1097 Re: [electrictroy] by robertsmx

Dec 03, 2004 (3:15 pm)

Replying to: electrictroy (Dec 03, 2004 11:25 am)
But if you don’t use regenerative braking, the energy isn’t going back to the gasoline tank.
 
This goes back to our discussion on creation versus transformation of energy.

#17 of 1097 by electrictroy

Dec 06, 2004 (9:50 am)

The battery is charged by slowing down the vehicle with the generator.
 
Agreed.
 
But what was used to speed up the car in the first place? The fuel. If there was no fuel, there'd be no braking. So ultimately *all* of the battery's energy comes directly or indirectly from gasoline.
 
.
 
PE (i) + KE (i) = PE (f) + KE (f) - energy loss
gasoline + 0 mph = battery + 0 mph - resistance
 
As you can see from this simple physics equation, the energy moves from the gasoline to the battery. If gasoline = 0, then battery *must* also equal 0.
 
.
 
"actual battery charging stages are still consuming energy in vast amounts"
 
There's no such thing in hybrids. The battery is charged by the gasoline in your tank... which is computed into the 50 MPG figure.
 
Troy
 

Messages Page 2 of 110

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