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Vans & Minivans Honda Odyssey Honda Odyssey 2005+
5148 messages, Last post on Nov 21, 2009 at 3:57 PM
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Replying to: vrm (Aug 09, 2005 7:39 pm) -the vehicle to be recalled 2+ times within 6 months. -the battery to lose charge or be defective after 2500 miles -steering wheel vibration at 60 mph -check engine light to go on after leaving the dealership" At what price point DO you expect these things to happen? Are you saying that if you only spent $15k on a new car, you would EXPECT these things to happen? Bottom line, these things shouldn't happen period. But they do. These things happen on cars costing $15k, they happen on cars costing $30k, and they happen on cars costing $100k. But because they happen relatively RARELY, when they DO happen, they are UNEXPECTED. Surveys and defects: I'll give you an example of why expectations can skew the results. I've seen a few discussions in the Ody boards about a 'defective' alignment of the upper glove box door in the new vans. Apparently, when the upper glove box door is closed, it is possible to see through the gap between the upper door and the lower main door. It is particularly noticible when there is some white paper (napkins or such) in the upper glove box. People have complained about this as a 'defect'. Is it a 'defect'? Or are all Odysseys that way? Perhaps the design is such that there simply is a gap between the two doors? Perhaps the engineers didn't what the possiblility of rattles arising from these two doors being jammed right up against one another. Yet, because this is an Odyssey, the owner's have this 'expectation' that there WON'T be a gap there. If this same exact gap were found in a similar feature in a Ford or DCX van, would it be reported by the owners as a 'defect'? Or would these owners simply assume that was the way it was supposed to be? THIS is how expectations can skew the results of an owner survey.
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Replying to: rorr (Aug 10, 2005 5:35 am) If you'll remember the Hummer H-2 had the worst JD Power score, and it was overwhelmingly due to owners reporting a glaring defect: poor gas mileage!! The H2 doesn't require an EPA sticker, and folks just couldn't understand why a 6500# vehicle with a 6.0L V8 was getting 10-12mpg! |
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Replying to: rorr (Aug 10, 2005 5:35 am)    Actually, petty as it may sound to you, I personally think that $30,000 is a pretty good cut off point at which I would expect that such annoying little details might well be avoided. If I were buying a bottom-end commuter car (as I did when I bought a year-old 2003 Taurus for $12,000 out the door!) I might be inclined to forgive such minor annoyances as the price for a cheap ride. But, this isn't the bottom-end of minivans we are talking about here. It just seems to me that a little bit more class, well-thought-out design, fit, finish, and lack of problems is a reasonable request for your money. As for the really expensive cars out there having trouble too, well, a lot of those complaints are direct results from trying to include every single cutting-edge accoutrement possible. And frequently, in European cars, it is exacerbated by trying to stick those features onto vehicles designed more for performance and less for us spoiled and lazy Americans who want our entire family room to accompany us and easily available on every trip we make. 
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Replying to: rorr (Aug 10, 2005 5:35 am) No one expects to have those kind of problems within 6 months of buying a new car. But, if it happens to you it doesn't really matter if the problem is rare or unexpected...because it's your problem...and your the one that has to deal with it. |
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Replying to: jipster (Aug 10, 2005 5:59 am) Absolutely. Why? Because these types of problems are RARE. They are rare in DCX vans, they are rare in Siennas, and they are rare in Odysseys. What gets me is the "this will be the first and last Honda I EVER buy" type of comments where the individual extrapolates (insinuates) that because their Odyssey has these issues, all Hondas are so afflicted. Personally, I don't pay any attention to JD Powers Initial quality surveys. I don't care about some tiny paint blemish or exterior trim piece that is misaligned by 3 mm. Some may feel that these initial items are indicative of long-term quality. I don't. Just like I don't feel that day to day fluctuations in a particular stock are indicative of long term results. What I do care about is reliability results from long-term owners. What is the vehicle like 3-4-5 years down the road? "Initial Quality Surveys" don't necessarily reflect this. |
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Replying to: hayneldan (Aug 09, 2005 3:16 pm) The July issue of C&D was their 50th anniversary issue. They had lengthy backgrounds on all their current and past editors and writers. IIRC, most started in engineering or marketing in the auto industry and then moved into writing. This link gives some specifics: http://www.hfmus.com/HachetteUSA/Page.asp?Site=CarDriver&Page=Editorial IIRC, Patrick Bedard worked as an engineer for Chrysler before getting into auto racing and writing. Over at Autobile, Jean Jennings worked in automotive design before writing as did Robert Cumberford and Phil Llewellin (RIP). I'd have to say that if they weren't not engineers initially, they are enthusiasts and bring more of a performance and subjective seat of the pants slant to the job as opposed to the highly subjective methods of a Consumer Reports. |
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Replying to: rorr (Aug 10, 2005 6:16 am) We always have the option to make our decisions based on our gut feelings and desires alone, leaving any and all potential information out of the equation. (In fact, from studies, personal experience, and reading these forums, it should be clear that car-buying is much more an emotional decision process than it is a rational one!) But, if we even want to imagine that we are being a little wise about this (remembering that there ain't no guarantees of flawless results), we will take all of the available info into account. Personally, I think the signs are clear: there is not as much of a quality gap out there as there once was. The reputations and expectations remain, but the reality is far less definitive than ever before.
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Replying to: rorr (Aug 10, 2005 6:16 am) Now, I wouldn't swear off a manufacturers brand because of a few small problems. But, you put enough small problems together and it becomes a major problem. Especially with a new vehicle. I would think the factor that would MOST influence long-term reliability(3-5years down the road) would be initial quality. Initial quality also factors in mechanical components/reliability as well as fit and finish. |
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Replying to: dilbertzzz (Aug 10, 2005 6:36 am) Wow I couldn't have said it better! These forums bring out the worst kind of imformation. It's the same people spreading there own truths! I really think quality after looking at all the sources is getting better from all companies. The american companies are right there on most of there cars. I didn't look at the other cars because of the of Honda's packaging and VSA plus I liked the ride. I haven't had any issues with my car. But that is my personal experience. I really believe Honda will get to the bottom of these nagging issues and in the longterm most Odyssey will have good reliability! |
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Replying to: rorr (Aug 10, 2005 6:16 am) Rorr: You have made your stand crystal clear. Your stance can be summarized as follows: You do not associate Quality with the price of the vehicle. All vehicles (15K to 100K) have defects. You do not care about fit and finish issues. Rattles, Squeaks and battery issues in new vhicles are "minor". The JD Powers Quality rankings are "biased" as they based on owners high "expectations". The majority of the vehicle owners would disagree with your stance. Lets agree to disagree on this! Lets move on to more substantive issues: Is the 2005 Ody a lemon?
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