Last post on Sep 04, 2008 at 7:40 AM
You are in the Honda Civic
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Sedan
#1591 of 4597 Power-to-weight
Sep 16, 2005 (5:48 am)
Power to weight isn't always a directly proportional comparison. I remember about six years ago, I was going through my old Consumer Reports magazines and noticing as the Honda Accord automatic went from a 125horsepower engine to a 150 horsepower engine, and the power-to-weight ratio improved, the acceleration times got worse. The 1992 did it in 9.8 seconds and the 1998 one did it in 10.5. It's a little know fact, also, that the 1994 Accord Lx with 130 horsepower could outgun the 1994 EX with 145 horses...Car and Driver even noted this in one of their tests. Few tests showed the more-powerful EX to be the better of the two.
So why is this? Well, maximum horsepower isn't the final word. If you have an engine which puts out very little at lower rpms and suddenly peaks at higher, you won't get the full power except for a very short time in the acceleration. This is why the V-6's do better with the automatics...their high output comes at a larger range of rpm's, and so even if you have fewer speeds, the V-6 will put out closer to its peak over a larger range than the 4-cylinder will, usually. It also depends on what rpm's the peak power comes. If you have to wait until 7600rpm to get all your power, you'll be waiting a long time. I've noticed the CVT transmissions seem to get more performance out of the same engine and the reason is they can put an engine at its peak horsepower by keeping it at the same rpm for the entire acceleration. I still don't know why Honda doesn't just scrap their 5-speed autos and put CVT's on everything! Why is that?
Transmissions also play a part in this. A 5-speed will usually accelerate faster than a 4-speed, all else being the same. But it depends on how close the gears are, and in some cases if they are too close you might have to do an extra shift before you hit 60 miles an hour, which will then take more time. If your transmission is geared towards economy then your top gear will probably be sluggish and the car will feel that way.
I try to compare Civics to Civics because I think even an '05 will be somewhat close to an '06 because automakers generally have some sort of philosophy as to why they build certain cars, and the engines and transmissions would mirror that. Honda Civics have always been light cars with small engines that rev and get great gas mileage and good performance but usually not great. To compare a Scion to a Civic without real-world tests would be very difficult. The Scion is a much more torquey engine. I saw a test between a 1993 Honda Civic DX Sedan and a Chrysler Neon which out torqued and out-powered the Honda easily. But in the test, the Neon beat the Civic by 8/10 seconds up to 60 miles an hour, and then the Honda stomped the Neon in the 0-100 mph test by three seconds! Must have been the gearing, the nature of the engines (Honda might come on strong at higher rpms where the Neon was a low-end kicker) or something. It's just a very murky science.
#1592 of 4597 Re: Europe vs North America [newsie23]
Sep 16, 2005 (5:53 am)
Those who have had the pleasure of traveling in Europe realize that North America is cheated on practically every vehicle! The vehicle choices in Europe are much more interesting than in North America.
#1593 of 4597 Re: Europe vs North America [w9cw]
Sep 16, 2005 (5:59 am)
Probably in part due to the fact most Americans want gigantic, gas-guzzling 500 horsepower cars. The roads and towns in Europe are small. People seem to be more humble. I drove around Europe for 2 1/2 months in 2002 and even on the Autobahn, at 100 miles an hour, people were much more polite than what I see here in the U.S. They were just just nice. What a refreshing change.
#1594 of 4597 Re: Decided on the 05 today [crandleman]
Sep 16, 2005 (6:15 am)
I like Hondas. And I am interested in a new 06 Civic. (Currently driving Integra).
However, it that price is right regarding 06 LX ($18.5K OTD), why wouldn't one just get a Camry?
In my neighborhood 05 Camry LE auto is selling for $16.3K. 05 Accord is selling for $19.2K. Big difference.
I don't understand the pricing on the new Civic. $3K to $4K (since comparing 05 VP to 06 LX) jump seems a bit too much.
With discount offered for Acura RSX, I don't understand Civic pricing.
Sep 16, 2005 (6:19 am)
because you would then have to drive a Camry.
Also, you can't really cmopare one car at MSRP to something else that is heavily incentivized. It distorts the picture.
But, if you want a Camry, hard to pass up that deal. GO grab it.
And, the CIvic didn'treally go up in price too much if you compare equiveliant models (LX vs. LX, etc.). Plus, you get all the safety equipment standard.
And, that LE Camry won't have side bags/curtains or ABS I don't believe.
#1596 of 4597 Re: WHERE THE HOOD [blueiedgod]
Sep 16, 2005 (6:21 am)
Replying to: disappoited (Sep 15, 2005 3:25 am)
SITTING IN THE SEDAN YOU CAN'T SEE WHERE THE FRONT OF THE CAR IS. YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE HOOD TO GET AN IDEA WHERE FRONT IS. HAS ANYBODY SIT IN THE COUPE AND IS IT THE SAME.
Where have you been in the last 20 years? None of the Honda's I have owned, starting with 1985 Honda Civic, you could see the hood. It is called AERODYNAMICS, if you weren't aware.
So that what it is ......I had always assumed my Civics were just missing their fronts.
#1597 of 4597 Re: Decided on the 05 today [heejoman]
Sep 16, 2005 (6:34 am)
There is no question that the price increase is something most buyers in this class notice. But much more relevant is the price point at whch the Civic is actually selling for ( thousands more) compared to the 05's that were cleared out at heavy discounts.
The Koreans and the heavily discounted Sentra are going to put preasure on Civic sales from underneath. As several people have noted, pressure is also coming from up above in the form of Camry- Accord, themselves being pressured by the newly competetive Sonata and others.
I like the new Civic and think they got it right (though I still hate their lack of options flexibility). Yet someone who is on a budget really needs patience at this point. I suspect every week that goes by will add significantly to buying power.
#1598 of 4597 Re: When will the Si hit the dealers [mf15]
Sep 16, 2005 (6:37 am)
Si will be a excellent. Might want to also look at Scion Tc expecally if supercharger is added.
#1599 of 4597 Re: I have decided to go with a Scion TC? [filmnews]
Sep 16, 2005 (6:39 am)
Si will be much faster unless you get the supercharger. the 7.5 was a very,very conservative guess. The real 0-60 mph time will be a second quicker , around 6.5 seconds.
#1600 of 4597 Re: Europe vs North America [yesroh]
Sep 16, 2005 (6:41 am)
yeah I usually complain about this.. myself BEING from europe....
one thing I was told though (which is true).. in Europe you pay more for a car. Basically look at what VW costs that's what you pay for Foci or the Civics, and it's not just the taxes, either. The EURO cars are more advanced: e.g. EURO Honda Accord is NA Accura TSX, NA doesn't even get the new EURO Focus, b/c it would cost too much. It's accross the board: Toyota shares nothing but SUV's with Europe, the same for Ford, etc... Honda is one of the few who dare to sell World Small cars.
The variety in the small car segment is much wide, because that's the "midisze" for Europe.. B'segment in Europe offers the whole deal: sedan, coupe, 3door Hatchback, 5door hatchback, wagon AND convertible. Lots to choose from.. but just the sheer fact that the 06 Civic will be in the U S only as a Sedan and Coupe shows thatthe task to span the Atlantic is a tough one.
And the lack of hatchback irks the heck out of me.. I was very much lookig forward to the HB civic as a real contender to such cars as Mazda3 5door and Focus ZX3 (my car)... and as I said previosly, without HB, Civic, like Corolla, Sentra, Neon, Cobalt and many other is a dead weight.... the trunk is simply a joke in sedans/coupes and I will refuse to pay for a car without a trunk:
just for comparison:
Focus Sedam: 14 cu/ft of cargo:
Focus 3door or 5door: 18 cu/ft of cargo
ACCORD: 14 Cu.ft...
and you have a non-flexible cargo opening....
I know HB are not the prefered body style in NA, but to not offer it at all is viewed as a handicap by a growing number of peoepl even in NA.
BTW NA stands for North America