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Where do sales of HEV go when gas goes $2.50-$3? - READ ONLY

38 messages,  Last post on Aug 27, 2004 at 5:34 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hybrid Cars, Fuel Efficiency (MPG)

Messages Page 4 of 4

#29 of 38 Re: [xcel] by john1701a

Aug 26, 2004 (1:05 pm)

Replying to: xcel (Aug 26, 2004 10:13 am)
> My $15K Corolla receives a lmpg within 3 mpg of your $27K Prius
 
Rather than comparing propulsion systems, that comment highlights trim level prices instead... which is not objective.
 
In fact, the price isn't even correct. I paid $1K less than that.
 
Rather than comparing similiar driving types, that comment compares highway-only data to mixed driving... which is not objective.
 
Also note that the Prius MPG quote is incorrect, it is off by over 5 MPG when you take into account the remaining summer months, the fact that E10 used for fuel instead of 100% gas, the fact that high-traction tires rather than the standard ones, and the fact that the new tires required break-in too. Ignoring all that is not objective.
 
Clearly, a constructive discussion is not possible.
 
JOHN

#30 of 38 Re: misleading arguments [gagrice] by john1701a

Aug 26, 2004 (1:18 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Aug 26, 2004 10:39 am)
> Named the cleanest internal-combustion vehicle on Earth by the EPA
 
Correct, that is true.
 
However, what actually comes out of the tailpipe is still dirtier than the HSD system.
 
GX is only rated at ULEV.
 
Prius is rated at PZEV.
 
Should I also point out the limited range and filling locations of GX?
 
Face it, hybrids pocess a tremendous amount of potential... especially as the price of gas continues to climb up.
 
JOHN

#31 of 38 Re: [john1701a] by stevedebi

Aug 26, 2004 (1:22 pm)

Replying to: john1701a (Aug 25, 2004 5:47 pm)
"Regardless, we need actual numbers to validate any claim. We need to be specific no matter what the outcome. Show me the data."
 
Ummm, I don't own a Prius. Could you please measure the width and depth of the area behind the rear seat? Otherwise I have no source for data, since Toyota has no interest in posting such facts.

#32 of 38 Re: Get out your calculator [john1701a] by solar_dad

Aug 26, 2004 (3:27 pm)

Replying to: john1701a (Aug 25, 2004 3:00 pm)
But you have to take into consideration the higher purchase price for a hybrid version of the equivalent car. An HCH is about $3-4K more than a comparable EX. A Prius, notwithstanding it's technical designation as a midsize, is closer to a Corolla than a Camry, and the base model price is probably at least the same price premium over a comparable Corolla. And once you add the $5K for Package #9... forget it.
 
So in your example, even a lifetime savings of $3K in fuel simply breaks you even.
 
I'm a big supporter of hybrids - I own two. But until the price comes down, this is really more of a "support the technology and spread the word" choice than a financial one.
 
Mike

#33 of 38 PZEV by falconone

Aug 26, 2004 (4:51 pm)

I think everyone can assume that a fraction of 1% of the US population knows what PZEZ is. 1% would be pushing it. In addition less than 1% of the population views this board. The few folks her bantering back and forth will not solve the problems we currently have with emissions. Let's face it, hybrids are here to stay and I kinda wish I owned one now. Name one car that you can drive for nearly a year, put 10,000 miles on it and sell it for what you paid for it???? Look at ebay and you'll see Prius' selling for MSRP with 10k miles on them!! Crazy!!

#34 of 38 by hotshot24

Aug 26, 2004 (5:17 pm)

Well the people buying the prius and other hybrids usually aren't the problem. It's people like my neighbors who have a F150 and surburban for city driving and don't even tow or off road. Hummers and excursions should be regulated or have to pay more for gas.

#35 of 38 GX is cleaner than the Prius [john1701a] by gagrice

Aug 26, 2004 (9:58 pm)

Replying to: john1701a (Aug 26, 2004 1:18 pm)
The GX is a natural-gas vehicle, so it doesn't use conventional gasoline; and it makes nearly zero emissions. In highly-polluted urban areas, the exhaust coming out of the tailpipe can actually be cleaner than the air outside. So it's no surprise that the strict California Air Resources Board calls the GX an Advanced Technology Partial Zero-Emission Vehicle (AT-PZEV). The American Council for Energy-Efficient Economy even ranks the Civic GX above some electric vehicles on its list of The Greenest Vehicles of 2003.* With the GX, you can tap into North America's abundant fuel supply to power the car. So you'll save money, and we'll all be less dependent on foreign oil. It's a tangible, effective way to help protect the environment for generations to come.
 
*The Civic GX placed second, behind only the Honda Insight.
 
http://www.hondacars.com/models/environment.asp?ModelName=Civic+G- X

#36 of 38 Re: [john1701a] by xcel

Aug 27, 2004 (1:20 am)

Replying to: john1701a (Aug 26, 2004 1:05 pm)
Hi John:
 
Rather than comparing similiar driving types, that comment compares highway-only data to mixed driving... which is not objective.
 
___A Prius II’s strengths up against the Corolla’s strengths I would say
 
Also note that the Prius MPG quote is incorrect, it is off by over 5 MPG when you take into account the remaining summer months, the fact that E10 used for fuel instead of 100% gas, the fact that high-traction tires rather than the standard ones, and the fact that the new tires required break-in too. Ignoring all that is not objective.
 
___Not only is your lmpg just 49 mpg and mine is over 45 when I drive but I use E10 here and have posted my tank over tanks from that same winter period to today as well?
 
___Ignoring your changed tires? So what. The Corolla has more rubber on the road right off the dealers lot given the tire width and is less affected by side winds. How about the advantage in aerodynamics? Can you say .29 vs. .26 Cd?
 
Clearly, a constructive discussion is not possible.
 
___When you continue to post falsehoods, you do indeed have nothing constructive to add …
 
___Wayne R. Gerdes

#37 of 38 Corolla Milage by falconone

Aug 27, 2004 (4:45 am)

WOW 45????? My neigbor barely gets 29 overall in his 2003! And he drives conservatively. What's your secret?

#38 of 38 by kirstie_h HOST

Aug 27, 2004 (5:34 am)

OK, this discussion has begun to duplicate other (hostile) arguments in existing discussions. I'm closing this topic for now. As you move on to other topics, please take note of the tone of your posts, and stay away from personal attacks and accusations.
 
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

Messages Page 4 of 4

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