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Sedans Hyundai Sonata Hyundai Sonata 2006-2007
7816 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 2:02 PM
You are in the Hyundai Sonata Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: alpha01 (Sep 09, 2004 1:37 pm) Your point about Hyundai not being "something different" with the exception of their "flagrant" taillight is very spurious. Is Toyota "different"? or Honda for that matter? If you look closely it would seem both of these manufacturers borrow design ideas from existing euro-domestic models. The main stream ubiquitous designs are what the consumer demands hence the high sales volume that are attributed to both Camry and Accord. All Hyundai has to do is prove to the consumer that their quality is consistent and their value unparalleled when compared to the two leading Japanese imports. |
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"All Hyundai has to do is prove to the consumer that their quality is consistent and their value unparalleled when compared to the two leading Japanese imports." What a terrifically simple plan - I wish I'd thought of that! (and, "all" we need for universal world peace is for everyone to quit fighting...) So far, American manufacturers have been unable to crack Japanese quality standards, nor have German manufacturers been able to sustain their quality tradition momentum in the recent past. (Check out Mercedes, Audi, VW, and BMW owner forums here on Edmunds for some eye-opening posts.) French and Italian? Phfff! There's a reason none of the former and very few of the latter are sold in the U.S. any longer. If Hyundai indeed has aspirations to equal or surpass Accord and Camry overall quality excellence* and re-invent their marketing mission accordingly (pun intended), they have their work cut out for them. I don't foresee the Japanese giving up their deserved, hard-earned status without a fight. Are Accords and Camrys perfect? No. But they're more often than not darned good. *The J.D. Powers "initial qualtiy" award the Sonata picked up recently is nice, but quality has to go beyond this superficial "how nicely the car was washed, gassed, prepped, exposed screws snugged down, and various systems explained to new owners at drive-off" award. When Hyundai gets awards for long term reliability, then the company will have something meaningful to brag about. As far as ownership is concerned, the "award" that really counts is resale/trade-in value unless the owner intends from the start to drive it out of his new car. That was my plan in deciding on purchasing my 2003 Sonata - drive it for a decade and either junk it or sell it depending on whether it's still drivable. But, most people never intend to keep a new car that long and many Hyundai lessees have been unpleasantly surprised at the end of their leases with residual value penalties assessed - even though the particular car might still be in tip-top condition with low miles.
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I may have messed up these numbers so if anyone sees a problem feel free to correct me. 1999 Hyundai Sonata GLS 6-cyl (retail: $17,000) 1999 Honda Accord LX 4-cyl (retail: $18,400) Trade-In Value to a Dealer Sonata- $5,455 Accord- $7,250 So really, what's the big deal with the Accord. If someone trades a car in within 3 years then getting a Hyundai just makes no sense. But keep the car a reasonable amount of time then you're not losing much. Not to mention you save huge amounts of money up front on a Sonata. Fitzmall has no-haggle pricing on a base Sonata with automatic for $14,000 (destination charge included). What you lose on resale value you gain upfront when you buy the car. People who buy new cars and trade in 3 years are taking huge hits anyway so they shouldn't exactly feel better that their car has great resale value. |
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You're right. It must be that I dont like Hyundais. Even though these are my exact words from post #24. "(The Sonata) its attractive overall, and if materials quality is as high as it seems to be and the engines are truly class competitve in power, refinement, and efficiency... this WILL be the vehicle that COMPLETELY changes the game for Hyundai." And the Accord looks like the Cougar? Um... what? Camry grille looks like a Taurus? The Taurus has an oval grille with a center mount logo, the Camry neither. You see interesting things. Regardless of anyones feelings, the Sonata looks like an Accord from the rear, for better or worse. That said, it looks to be an excellent car. I only wonder if the resemblence to the Accord is going to be a boone for, or inhibit the vehicle's success. ~alpha
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I'm biased against Honda, I admit it. Why don't you go ahead and admit you're biased against Hyundai. I never once heard you say the tC was a "pretender". All you and everyone ever did was praise it. Then here comes the Sonata and everyone comes out of the woodwork calling Hyundai copy-cats and pretenders. I'd like you to explain to me how the tC is let off the hook but the Sonata is a "pretender". Do you think the tC designers were living under a rock and had no clue what the Tiburon taillights looked like? Do you somehow find it coincidence that they look so similar? They compete against each other just like the Sonata/Accord, but Toyota is let off the hook while Hyundai is once again copying designs? I think you even mentioned you were interested in buying a tC at some point. Why do you think "pretender" when looking at the Sonata taillights but don't think "pretender" on the tC?
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we have it in our workplaces, highways, stores(remember the push that trampled the lady at a Florida store a coupla years ago?)and we have it in automobile sales. Hyundai designers have struck a nice note with me on this new 2005 Sonata design. Yep, they all do it, copy each other's designs. Yet, still, I like how Hyundai and Kia designers design cars. Not just the bodies, but the mechanics as well. My Sportage's seats are an example. From dog slobber to spilled soda, my Sportage's seats take a beating. Yet they clean up so well with just some gentle scrubbing. I take everything into consideration when I look at cars. My Sportage has yet to even burn out a single lightbulb yet. And I'm at 82,200 miles on the thing. Yikes. If I had bought a Honda CRV don't you think I would've replaced at least four light bulbs by now? I have not needed a single lick of brake work yet on my Sportage, nor have I needed a single tire replaced! The original Hankook (yes, they're manufactured in South Korea) tires for my Sportage look like they'll make it through another Missouri winter. Now that is truly a good value in a SUV boys and girls. The new Sonata design will be popular here in America. It should sell way better than it eventually will, though. Too many paranoid people will buy the homely Camry and Accord and drive down Sonata sales a bit. What I'm hoping though is that some more American people will wake up to these South Korean cars and SUV's. They really are the future in automotive needs. |
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Replying to: ray h (Sep 11, 2004 9:10 am) Your comments show just how far Hyundai has come as a car company. The fact that we are now having a discussion about whether Hyundai's quality is on par with the top two Japanese rivals and whether the re-sale value of future cars that they build will be competitive with the likes of Camry and Accord says a whole lot about how quickly they have attained 'contender' status in this segment. You of all people ought to remember the humble beginings of both Toyota and Honda. If your memory is a little cloudy let me help it along;I recall their first offerings in the late '70s & early 80's- corona, tercel, civic, accord. In the beginning no one thought of these cheap, cramped, uncomfortable cars as anything other than basic transportation-The same can be said for early gen Hyundais introduced to the North American market. Did Hyundai miss the mark on quality? You sure bet they did. Have they learned an important lesson from their Japanese rivals as a result of this? Their latest sales figures for the last several years show them rebounding over 100%. By all accounts it seems that the new Sonata will be the benchmark of future Hyundais to come. Its success, and hence re-sale value will ultimately be determined by the market place who will be the final judge and jury. |
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Anybody here familiar with the general design process, test, factory line validation, and market introduction of a new vehicle? I read somewhere that the new Sonata was 3.5 years in the making (unfortunately I can't remember where). So that puts the beginning of the project, according to that, at around the beginning of 2001 . . . I agree the new Sonata and the 2003 and 2004 Accord's have a similar rear style. But it doesn't seem too much like the 2002 and earlier. I assume the rear style of the 2003 was revealed around mid 2002 . . . that would be a year and a half into the new Sonata's design process . . . almost halfway. I am not familiar with the auto industry, but I was a process engineer in the semiconductor industry and the test and validation of a chip design takes a good deal of time and then it's takes another good chunk of time to set up a manufaturing line to produce the chip. I assume the testing cycle and factory line setup each take a considerable amount of time for making cars so it seems to me that, if Hyundai did blatantly copy the Honda styling cues, they might not have had much time to implement the copy. So if anybody does have direct knowledge of typical design cycles, does two years seem like enough time, or is it cutting it close? I have no idea, I'm just curious. |
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pzev, allow me to give you a true-to-life example of Honda's ability to hold onto its resale value. On November 19, 2002, I totaled my 1996 Honda Accord at an intersection due to my own neglegence. Fortunately no one was hurt. The other car, a Ford Contour, rode up and over my Accord's front bumper leaving the Accord "defenseless" to both cars' combined momentum. The front end (bumper to windshield) of my car was pancaked to nearly half its original length, so at six years of age and use, Geico decided to just total it out. I received a check in the amount of $11,472 plus change for my LX 4-cyl. Geico's calculations were based on what amounted to the average of the Kelly Blue Book low and high "book" valuations for a west coast car in excellent condition. Conversely, Edmunds currently suggests I should be able to sell my west coast base model 2003 Sonata in the private sector (purchased December 12, 2002) for about $11,500. So, to recap, I'm comparing personal, real world experience (which I pray I'll never repeat - I'm getting to old for these types of "adventures"!) of a 6 year, 7 month old '96 Accord LX originally purchased for $17,000.00+ to a 1 year, 9 month old base model '03 Sonata V6 whose out-the-door price came to $17,523.30. At the risk of drawing a hasty conclusion, I get the impression my '96 Accord LX I4 (130hp non-Vtec) held a higher percentage of its original purchase price somewhat longer than my base model '03 Sonata V6 (170hp) has so far... Am I sorry I bought the Sonata? No, not at all. So far it's lived up to expectations. It's solid, comfortable and somewhat quieter than the car it replaced. It does not, however, hold the road quite as well - the Accord always left me the impression that it "wanted" to follow the direction of the road, requiring little driver input. The Sonata's definitely more twitchy despite two dealer and one independent shop alignments. Both cars came equipped with Michelin MXV4+ series radial tires - 195/65R15s on the Accord and 205/65R15s on the Sonata. Neverthless, I'm sufficiently satisfied with the Sonata to anticipate 10 year ownership barring unforseen circumstances. Do I miss my '96 Accord? Yeah, I'll have to admit that I do, and if a genie offered me the choice of my old Accord prior to the accident and my current Sonata, I'd have to think long and hard about my decision. delta 4, actually Toyota's "humble beginnings" preceeded the 1970s by a bit over a decade. In 1959, Toyota came to these shores with a little underpowered, 4-cyl OHV, 4-dr. crapbox called the "Toyopet". I was 15 at the time and my dad had a friend who bought one - a bit homely, but nevertheless well proportioned in a 1955 Chevy sort of way. I remember the ride - a WW-II Jeep rode better. Things've changed. Honda's "humble beginnings" predated the 1970s, too. I was still in community college, so it must've been ~1963-1965 that a very small ~900cc 2-dr. Honda car was introduced. It had a catchy name. It was called "The Honda Car"... It could nominally carry four passengers if two of 'em were no taller than 4th graders. Both the "Toyopet" and "The Honda Car" were quietly withdrawn from the U.S. market for lack of interest after the initial year or two fanfare died down. When the respective companies' car offerings next re-appeared in American showrooms in the mid-to-late 1960s for Toyota and the early 1970s for Honda, it was obvious the Japanese designers and engineers had done their homework. I was in optometry college by that time. A couple of my classmates bought or received the new Coronas in 1969 and 1970 - our graduation year. I'm not certain, but I believe the Honda Civics came over a year or two later. Small, but sufficiently developed to keep up with city traffic and run the legal speed limit on freeways. Reasonably well put together, and reliable, they were the right package to be ready for the first of several oil crises that would disrupt American driving and living habits for some time to come. Though not perfect, no one laughed at Japanese engineering again - especially Detroit. Hope I didn't bore any of you to a migraine with this jaunt down memory lane. But, if I did, tough... 
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Replying to: ray h (Sep 11, 2004 10:18 pm) " - ray h Actually Ray I enjoyed reading your down memory-lane-bio-tome. LoL! You definitely write with a flair towards the dramatic but alas I digress. Indeed as you pointed out so eloquently Hondas and Toyotas got their start way, way back when no one thought (or would they rather forget?) very much of what a Toyota or Honda would become today. My point here is Hyundai, like Toyota and Honda has indeed 'learned'. Of course there is a process at work for Hyundai due to the very case-in-point lessons and examples to which you refer. For a car company like Hyundai driven (pardon the pun!) by a relentless desire to rebuild its brand image takes sheer determination and a commitment to change the perception of that brand in the mind of the consumer. This of course takes time (next 2 yrs) and obviously must be backed up with and substantiated by a product that can deliver on its promise of high quality and value. Big picture: Hyundai is already on the way to making those inroads. They seem capable and dedicated to delivering the kind of cars the consumer is demanding. Their quality star is beginning to shine. Not unlike the story of the student surpassing the teacher, they may some day rise to displace the current market leaders and gain a foothold within the hallowed ranks of highly valued and desirable-to-own cars! |
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