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Hybrid Vehicles Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel Is Ethanol good for the environment?
165 messages, Last post on Sep 24, 2008 at 5:25 AM
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Mar 27, 2006 10:57 am) You are only thinking of cooking oil. That is many times less costly than biodiesel from soy or rapeseed. That 1/3.2 cost figure is to produce biodiesel from soy beans or rape. Crops that are not as invasive as growing corn or sugar for ethanol. Plus the production cost of producing biodiesel from soy is much lower than ethanol from corn. The only reason ethanol is gaining so much ground is political. Pure and simple. Biodiesel is practical for many uses that ethanol cannot hope to attain. It would be very difficult to produce enough biodiesel to power as many vehicles as we have today. That would also require a change to diesel engines that would run on biodiesel. It is not IN with mainstream America because it is not as easy for big corporations to maintain control. No one is trying to say we can all hang out at McDonald's and fuel up our diesel cars. And the latest energy bill does have a buck per gallon incentive for biodiesel. So it is moving in the right direction. Just not as fast as I think it is needed.
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Mar 27, 2006 10:57 am) You mean like the billions wasted in the 1990s on Electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel cells.
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 27, 2006 11:31 am) No I am thinking about all sources. That 1/3.2 cost figure is to produce biodiesel from soy beans or rape. Crops that are not as invasive as growing corn or sugar for ethanol. There is not enough farmland in the US to grow enough soybeans to create the biodiesel to replace the diesel we use. Thats why biodiesel is only workable on a small scale. Plus the production cost of producing biodiesel from soy is much lower than ethanol from corn. My main concern is land use. Since land can produce far more corn than soybeans and a bushel of corn can produce more ethanol that a bushel of soybeans can produce biodiesel producing the ethanol might be a better use of the land. It would be very difficult to produce enough biodiesel to power as many vehicles as we have today. Not difficult, it would be impossible to do it. There just isn't enough land to grow the crops. It is not IN with mainstream America because it is not as easy for big corporations to maintain control. One thing to consider, if we took the entire US production of soybeans and convert it to biodiesel we would have about 6.5% of our diesel needs. If we put every last square inch of farmland to producing soybeans for biodiesel we still wouldn't make enough. Its simple, biodiesel is not a solution, only a small stop gap until the true solution comes along.
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 27, 2006 11:33 am) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 27, 2006 10:00 am) I haven't been on the boards lately due to work so its good to see you and others are still around. Yes, three cheers to the governor. Now, the hard truth, the reason that biodiesel will be an additive is because it costs +/-$2.90 per gallon to create it. Now I'm all for. I've got it in my tank outside. I know that there are a few people that lurk on these boards creating BD through waste oil for MUCH less. However, to get the ASTM certifications and other quality seals to pump it through our vehicles AND to get the auto manufacturers to stand behind it is another thing altogether. Until the auto manufacturers approve it, the oil companies are not going to let you pump it out of their gas nozzles. I know that some have claimed to make it for less than $1/gallon...but you can't make 5 million gallons of it. If you could, you couldn't sell it to anyone. If you can, let me know, I can set you up with some people willing to invest. Boiler |
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USDA Energy Balance Study Greenhouse gas issue bebunked (from Berkely no less) UC Berkely News OOOOOOh, now (THE Journal) SCIENCE weighs in... Ethanol Can Contribute to Energy and Environmental Goals I'll let you guess how long it took to find some actual, factual, information thanks to Google. Cheers, Boiler |
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 27, 2006 11:33 am) I just stumbled onto this thread....good to hear you have been boning up on alternative fuels.... so what is the low down now on ethanol ? I have seen many GM ads in magazines touting the yellow cars and this fuel. IS it something that can provide an alternative while a permanent fuel replacement is found ? OR is it like the Prius...costing more in money & fuel upfront , and thus not a real cost effective idea ? cheers !
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Replying to: highender (Mar 30, 2006 8:33 pm) |
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Replying to: highender (Mar 30, 2006 8:33 pm)
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I'm not sure of the future of E85 and acknowledge the decline in mileage. However, I think people should at least consider the possibility that the $2.50/gal we're currently paying for gas may seem cheap a few years from now. It's quite possible we could be paying $4 or $5 per gallon gas fairly soon. Alot of it has to do with the future level of economic growth in Asia, particularly China and India. If this happens, ethanol becomes more and more viable. What I have not heard discussed on this board is the potential switch from corn to switchgrass. A study out of Auburn University in Alabama which I heard on NPR right after the State of the Union Address indicated switchgrass produces 4 gallons of ethanol for every one gallon's worth of energy used to produce it, compared to a ratio of 2.5 to 1 for corn. Given that switchgrass is native, grows well in a larger area of the country, requires far less intensive management, holds the soil better and would generally be better for the environment than corn, it has potential to become a major crop.
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