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Hybrid Vehicles Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel Is Ethanol good for the environment?
165 messages, Last post on Sep 24, 2008 at 5:25 AM
You are in the Ethanol - E85 FlexFuel Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 28, 2004 10:09 pm) http://www.ethanol.org/pdfs/energy_balance_ethanol.pdf http://www.ethanol.org/pdfs/energy_balance_ethanol.pdf http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/library/admin/uploadedfiles/Ho- w_Much_Energy_Does_it_Take_to_Make_a_Gallon_.html HIGHLIGHTS "U.S. Department of Agriculture, July 2002. This study analyzes many of the previous studies on the energy balance of producing ethanol. The conclusion by the study's authors is that there is 34% more energy in a gallon of ethanol than it takes to produce it." "Michigan State University, May 2002. This comprehensive, independent study funded by MSU shows that there is 56% more energy in a gallon of ethanol than it takes to produce it." troy
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Replying to: electrictroy (Feb 08, 2005 9:15 am) . Sounds like Hydrogen. H2 has the same flaw, but people ignore it. Anyway, I find it difficult to believe ethanol results in a 54,000 BTU loss. Ethanol plants are basically *solar cells* absorbing free energy from the sun. Surely having liquified solar energy is beneficial? troy
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Replying to: electrictroy (Feb 08, 2005 9:16 am) I think they consider it a wash because it absorbs as much CO2 as it creates when used as fuel. |
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Um, yeah, but my point is that we're getting "free energy" from the sun. Ethanol is like liquified solar. How is that bad? troy
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http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_brazils_flexfuel_cars/index.htm 22 % of vehicles sold in Brazil in 2004 had Flex-fuel and this may increase to 50 % in 2005. Great. Their flex-fuel has both Bi-Fuel (gasolene/Ethanol) and Tri-Fuel (gasolene/Ethanol/Natural-gas) Brazil is also #2 in CNG usage. As for the energy input/output ratio, if it consumes more input, then combined with the labor, it will cost double that of gasolene, but it costs only 10 - 15 % more which is also because of low sales volume. I am sure that Ethanol delivers more energy than what it consumes to produce and in Cane-based Ethanol output is even more. As gas prices increase, expect more vehicles even in USA. Hey, Indonesia which is a long time OPEC member has become a net oil-importer last year and plans to pull out of that cartel. |
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www.greencarcongress.com Its good to sell vehicles running on E85, but why is GM always putting such technology in trucks. An average truck driver may never know about E85 and will not search for a station vending that fuel. GM can bring it in a smaller vehicle like Cobalt, Equinox, etc.
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The places where E85 is available (north-central U.S.) are mostly farmers who drive trucks. So that's why the technology is aimed at trucks. Troy |
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Replying to: yerth10 (Mar 23, 2005 10:10 am) They would never sell to the public. They average about 25% lower mileage than normal gas engines. I am sure it is more expensive and not readily available. It is cleaner and less GHG. If you want a small car that gets good mileage on an alternate fuel, go with the VW TDI and Biodiesel or the Honda Civic GX that runs on CNG. CNG cars are the Cleanest on the planet. Maybe even cleaner than electric vehicles if you have to use electricity generated with coal or fuel oil. |
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http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html E85 costs $1.49 / gallon in this webpage. Even it has only 4/5 the energy of gasoline, it should cost 4/5*2.1 = $1.68. So it is 18 cents cheaper. The gas price shown in the board is definitely older as they show lower price of gas. |
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Replying to: yerth10 (Mar 24, 2005 10:54 am) It has about 3/4 the energy of unleaded gas. So the break even amount would be if the fuel sells for 25% less. The real kicker is the fact that it is very expensive & dangerous to transport. If you are in the area of an Ethanol plant the price is reasonable. The amount that is added to the CA gas is one of the factors making our gas the most expensive in the nation. I think it is about 11% that is added to our gas. I noticed my mileage on the last trip to Las Vegas in the Lexus was about 1 mpg better on the return trip with a fill-up in Vegas. |
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