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Is Ethanol good for the environment?

165 messages,  Last post on Sep 24, 2008 at 5:25 AM

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What is this discussion about? Alternative Fuels


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#21 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [falconone] by gagrice
Jul 30, 2004 (7:47 am)
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Replying to: falconone (Jul 30, 2004 2:29 am)

More political propaganda than anything else.
 
It is very Apolitical and affects all of us. It takes money from the East and West coast drivers and puts it in the pockets of huge corporations and big farmers in the Midwest. And it is not something I want in my gas. In fact if they force CA to use it I will go all diesel. It may be ridiculous to you, not me.
#22 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [gagrice] by stevedebi
Jul 30, 2004 (11:54 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 30, 2004 7:47 am)

"And it is not something I want in my gas. In fact if they force CA to use it I will go all diesel. It may be ridiculous to you, not me. "
 
Hmmm, you do realize that the only diesels allowed in California are in vehicles over 6000 lbs? So you are saying you would buy a Ford Excursion, or F250 or Chevy Tahoe XT?
 
However, I take your point. I was never fond of MTBE either. I wonder what alternatives to Ethanol are available (and what they would cost)?
#23 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [stevedebi] by gagrice
Jul 30, 2004 (3:06 pm)
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jul 30, 2004 11:54 am)

There are ways to get around the CARB rules. You can buy a diesel car with 7500 miles on it, possibly from another state. The real stickler on Ethanol is shipping is a pain. It cannot be piped over so it will have to come by truck to the refineries where it will be mixed. It does raise the NoX and sulfur which is counter productive. CA is fighting the Feds on this one. Our governor is bigger than Iowa's so maybe we will win. Ethanol is just a get rich corporate scam.
And isn't that something, I can buy a huge diesel Pickup truck and not a VW TDI, that is so much cleaner burning than any of the big 3 diesel PU manufacturers.
#24 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [gagrice] by stevedebi
Jul 30, 2004 (3:26 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 30, 2004 3:06 pm)

"There are ways to get around the CARB rules. You can buy a diesel car with 7500 miles on it, possibly from another state."
 
Nope, you cannot buy a car from another state, unless it is pre-1992, when the current diesel rules were implemented. You would not be able to register the car here. The VIN would show up as a new diesel and would be rejected.
 
So I suppose we can go ahead and buy that 1991 Mercedes 300D with 300K miles on it...
 
Rules will probably change in 2007 when the cleaner low-sulfer diesel is due to be introduced in all states.
#25 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [stevedebi] by gagrice
Jul 30, 2004 (3:38 pm)
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jul 30, 2004 3:26 pm)

Actually I just got my SOCO/CFN cards. There is a station a mile from my home that sells ULSD less than 15 ppm diesel. So I am ready. Actually the law against small diesel cars went in last year for the 2004 cars. My VW dealer sold lots of VW TDI's up till this year. They bring a big premium on the used market. The San Diego Trader had a 2002 Bug TDI listed at $19k. Too rich for my blood. I'll look up the regs on bringing used diesel cars into CA.
#26 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [stevedebi] by gagrice
Jul 30, 2004 (4:22 pm)
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jul 30, 2004 3:26 pm)

Here is a link that explains the loopholes in the CA DMV laws.
 
mike91326 "VW Passat TDI" Jul 12, 2004 1:58pm
Here is the actual rules that allow you to bring a non CA new car into the state.
 
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/NonCAVeh/NonCAVeh.pdf
#27 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [gagrice] by stevedebi
Aug 02, 2004 (1:15 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 30, 2004 4:22 pm)

I don't think the suggestion about Vegas would work. The law requires that you show a repair invoice, not just some statement.
 
Also, realize that you would have to register the vehicle in two different states, and that when you register a vehicle in California from another state, you pay CA sales tax as well as the vehicle fees... I know because it happened to me when I moved here in 1989.
 
So you would have to pay out-of-state sales taxes and registration plus CA sales taxes and registration.
#28 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [stevedebi] by gagrice
Aug 02, 2004 (8:13 pm)
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Replying to: stevedebi (Aug 02, 2004 1:15 pm)

I'm not sure how easy that Vegas deal would be to pull off.
 
How long ago did you have to pay sales tax on a used vehicle you brought from a different state? My partner that works with me in Alaska lives in Long Beach and his wife got nervous driving his new Envoy with Alaska plates. It is a year old and she took it in and got CA plates for a total of $233. No sales tax. It surprised me also. They said if the car is over 90 days old there is no tax. I think the laws have changed since 1989.
#29 of 165
Re: Ethanol Rush [gagrice] by stevedebi
Aug 03, 2004 (10:36 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Aug 02, 2004 8:13 pm)

"They said if the car is over 90 days old there is no tax. I think the laws have changed since 1989. "
 
Good to know and good riddance... my car was 12 years old at the time...
#30 of 165
What is the environmental gain? by gagrice
Feb 07, 2005 (6:09 pm)
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This is a typical E85 compatible vehicle. I don't see any reason to use Ethanol. It gets a worse air pollution score than the gas only version and when running E85 it uses more fuel. What kind of scam is this E85?
 
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-CHEVROLET-Suburban1500-05.htm

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