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Is Ethanol good for the environment?

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#131 of 165 Re: show me the DATA [raychuang00] by gagrice May 19, 2006 (5:20 pm)
Replying to: raychuang00 (May 18, 2006 8:34 pm) Algae to biodiesel may just be the answer. Time will tell. Replies to this message: snakeweasel (May 19, 2006 5:54 pm)
#132 of 165 Re: show me the DATA [gagrice] by snakeweasel May 19, 2006 (5:54 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (May 19, 2006 5:20 pm) Good they can come over and clean out my fish tank, they can run the country for 50 years on what that tank produces
#133 of 165 Re: show me the DATA [gagrice] by fireball1 May 19, 2006 (10:48 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (May 19, 2006 5:19 pm) The groundwater problem becomes twofold as the aquifer gets drawn down. Those chemical fertilizers, as you mention, eventually get into the groundwater. Because there is less groundwater, there is less dilution and a higher degree of pollution. I am not certain how long it takes for corn fertilizer to make its way down to the groundwater -- I'm sure it depends on the porous nature of the soil (or sand, in western Nebraska) -- but we are already paying a price. Many small communities in Nebraska (population 10,000 or less) have been forced to seek new wells with clean water several miles outside of town because of the nitrate contamination. That's why some city managers in such communities are outraged by the over-irrigation and overproduction of corn, and the sales job that's going on for corn ethanol. What also is sad is the politicking. Already a Nebraska senator is running TV ads for the fall campaign: He says, "I envision Nebraska corn fields replacing Mideast oil fields." It is amazing how many people buy into that. That's the nature of the political beast -- if you say anything perceived as anti-ethanol or anti-agriculture in the Midwest, even though it may be true, you are committing political suicide. That suits the National Corn Growers, Farm Bureau, etc., just fine, even though they know (deep down inside) that the viability of corn ethanol is questionable at best. If, as I've read in places, corn has only 3-5 more years as the main fuelstuff for ethanol (thanks to farm state lobbies, politicians & subsidies), I am wondering if these dozens of corn ethanol plants can be retrofitted to accept switchgrass or other materials? If not, have we jumped into this too quickly?
#134 of 165 Re: my view [mxer] by seniorjose May 21, 2006 (12:19 pm)
Replying to: mxer (Aug 17, 2005 8:17 pm) "I'm not convinced of ethanol as a solution either. It can, however, provide some relief from total reliance on crude oil. To obtain ethanol, one must ferment corn or some other sugar-containing material. Fermentation releases CO2. The amount of CO2 released must be considered when selling ethanol as a fuel."   I believe that the resultant CO2 is captured...but the real savings is the corn or switch grass that converts naturally fixed CO2 from our environment to the Oxygen given off by al of these plants Most green plants convert CO2 to oxygen -- except for a moldy fast-food burger long forgotten under the passenger sear Replies to this message: gem069 (May 21, 2006 1:45 pm)
#135 of 165 Re: my view by gem069 May 21, 2006 (1:45 pm)
Replying to: seniorjose (May 21, 2006 12:19 pm) 757Below is a list of fueling facilities that have installed E85 since issuance of our last NEVC newsletter, May 8, 2006.   The following 35 facilities are or will soon be carrying the clean burning, alternative – E85, bringing the total number of public and privately accessed E85 fueling locations to 757:   PS Energy  340 Whitehall Street SW  Atlanta  GA    East Central Iowa Cooperative (Cardtrol)  1144 Highway 63 North  Hudson  IA    Kum & Go  141 S. Jordan Creek Parkway  West Des Moines  IA    Fuel Time (Cardtrol)  426 4th Street  Mason City  IA    County Line Mart  609 East Broadway  Keota  IA    Citgo/Minuteman #14  4901 South Central Avenue  Stickney  IL    Meyer Oil Company  1505 West Main  Teutopolis  IL    Gas City #59  900 Brookforest Drive  Shorewood  IL    Mach 1 Food Shop  1701 Philo Road  Urbana  IL    Meijer Gas #129  5349 Pike Plaza  Indianapolis  IN    Crystal Flash  545 South Rangeline Road  Carmel  IN    Meijer #201  606 Greenville West Drive  Greenville  MI    Mussers Service, LLC  106 South Main Street  Nashville  MI    Pacific Pride (fleet cards)  1939 Cooper Street  Jackson  MI    MFA Oil Company - Petro-Card 24  24886 Highway 36  Bucklin  MO    Break Time Convenience Store  1405 North Bluff  Fulton  MO    Break Time Convenience Store  163 West Simon  Holts Summit  MO    Break Time Convenience Store  300 Washington  Chillicothe  MO    Break Time  1105 Main Street  Boonville  MO    MFA Oil - Petro Card 24  803 North Highway 151  Centralia  MO    Break Time  4 Business Loop 70 West C  Columbia  MO    MFA Oil Company - Petro-Card 24  1845 East 9th Street  Trenton  MO    MFA Oil Company - Petro-Card 24  1608 East Liberty  Mexico  MO    Break Time Convenience Store  1901 North Highway 763  Columbia  MO    Pit Stop  2203 Highway 70 SW  Hickory  NC    Huey's Mart  1591 N. Decatur Boulevard  Las Vegas  NV    Flamingo Stop  8615 West Flamingo  Las Vegas  NV    Vogelbilt Corp.  1200 Wellwood Avenue  West Babylon  NY    Oregon State Motor Pool  6400 N. Cutter Circle  Portland  OR    Worley & Obetz (WoGo Fueling Card)  736 Rothsville Road  Lititz  PA    Pitt Stop #42  1928 Airport Road  West Columbia  SC    Irmo C-Mart  7353 Nursery Road  Columbia  SC    Brabham Oil Company, Inc.  525 Midway Street  Bamberg  SC    Ampride Truck Plaza  200 SD Highway 44  Chancellor  SD    Pacific Pride  1980 Terminal Drive  Pasco  WA
#136 of 165 Re: show me the DATA [gagrice] by mvandergoot Jun 01, 2006 (4:18 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 29, 2004 7:24 am) Hey think about the possibilities. Why not Hybrid-biodiesel?
#137 of 165 Re: E85 emissions [gagrice] by seniorjose Jun 03, 2006 (4:00 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Apr 30, 2006 7:29 pm) "Replacing a year's worth of U.S. gasoline consumption with sugar cane-based ethanol would require a swath of farmland a little smaller than California. Replacing that gasoline with less efficient corn-based ethanol, which the United States produces lots of, would require farmland the size of Texas.   Sugar Cane can only be grown in two places in the USA, South Florida and Southern Louisiana. I doubt if cane sugar will ever be put into ethanol production -- but then Castro may have a need to do it!. The need to have lands equivalent to California and Texas for ethanol production is humorous, irrelevant and without foundation. Please stick to facts, not sandwiches! Replies to this message: gagrice (Jun 03, 2006 4:19 pm)
#138 of 165 Re: hmm [gljvd] by seniorjose Jun 03, 2006 (4:09 pm)
Replying to: gljvd (Apr 20, 2006 11:35 pm) seems to me that like everything else , the amount of money we pour into making e85 more efficient , the sooner we get it more efficient. We need to do something as I highly doubt the gas prices are going to go down in the next 10 years. It will only go up ... up alot   I agree, walking around denying we have a problem is what canada and Mexico does...not these United States...negative pessimism does not solve any problem. Right NOW ethanol appears to be a viable mix with gasoline (either E10 or E85) AND diesel fuel (E95 or Biodiesel).
#139 of 165 Re: E85 emissions [seniorjose] by gagrice Jun 03, 2006 (4:19 pm)
Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 03, 2006 4:00 pm) Please stick to facts, not sandwiches!   If you have credible documents to refute what is presented by others you should feel free to post. So far you have only posted your opinions with nothing to substantiate them. I did not write that article. I only posted it as a point of reference. If you have disputing evidence you should send it to the author:   By Jack Chang Knight Ridder Newspapers   PS I don't think Castro will start making ethanol from sugar until he has gotten all the oil that sits in the water 45 miles off of Key West Florida. The Cubans are poor and cannot afford to throw money away on get rich quick schemes like ethanol.
#140 of 165 Cheap oil vs Ethanol! by gagrice Jun 03, 2006 (4:25 pm)
An unlikely political figure is willing to fight for lower gas prices. His name: Fidel Castro.   He's working with foreign investors, including China, to find oil off the Cuban coast, close to American waters.   In contrast, American companies aren't looking for oil off the Florida coast, because it's part of the 85 percent of the nation's offshore areas where drilling's not allowed. In addition to the eastern Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Coast, much of the Pacific and offshore Alaska is also restricted. Only the central and western Gulf, off Louisiana and Texas, has a green light to produce oil.   These federal restrictions were imposed many years ago when oil was cheap and the need for additional drilling was considered insignificant. Fears of environmental damage have kept them in place, though technological improvements have greatly reduced those risks. All new drilling would have to comply with strict safeguards and wouldn't even cause aesthetic harm, as it would occur too far offshore to be seen from land.   Florida and California lawmakers have done the most to obstruct any pro-drilling measures - which is unfortunate, since they are two states with tremendous offshore energy resources.   Cuban Oil   This is how Brazil got oil independent, not using ethanol as the news would have you believe.

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