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#327 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is real. [larsb]
Aug 22, 2005 (9:07 am)
You need to get off the TMV disrespect thing.
I don't think it has anything to do with respect. It has to do with reality. Where has Edmund's found all these TMV prices on used hybrids? If you remember a few months ago I showed a 3 year old Prius that sold for $9100 with 90k miles on it. It was sold by a Toyota dealer in Washington DC on eBay. It was supposedly in primo condition. The Edmund's TMV was almost $16k for that car with that equipment and mileage. I don't think that there is enough evidence to say that a Civic hybrid with 50k - 100k miles will have a better resale than the EX Civic for example. Only a few are willing to take a chance on the new hybrids. Why would many take a chance on a used one. We just had a person buy a 2003 Prius and before the ink dried on the contract she was facing a $2000 + repair to the NAV system. I think anyone buying a hybrid with out some B to B warranty left is asking for a big heartache.
#328 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is re [larsb]
Aug 22, 2005 (9:10 am)
how did this get started?
anyway, i also don't think the HCH will ever sell less than the HC-EX. Forget edmunds for a second- if you see two used civics, more or less equal, but one's hybrid, would you pay more for the hybrid? I would unless one of the following happens from now until then:
1) Reports of HCH shown to blow up
2) NYT headlines- "Hybrids out, Mr Fusion in- cars run on garbage as seen in back to the future."
3) gas is $1 gallon
4) battery myth becomes reality- everyone with a 5y/o hybrid must pay $$$ to operate car.
I don't see 1-3 happening. #4 is a maybe at best- but really theres not enough data to conclusively say this is fact. unfortunately as long as the PERCEPTION exists, then this will affect resale- at least until it's disproven.
#329 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is re [otis1]
Aug 22, 2005 (9:49 am)
i also don't think the HCH will ever sell less than the HC-EX.
That is because you think the technology is good. I doubt that 10% of the population agrees with that thinking. When I talk to friends and relatives looking for a good mileage car and mention hybrids, the answer is always the same "NO WAY". Hybrids are a long, long way from being accepted by the buying public. Our enthusiasm does not carry over to joe average American. I would not have bought a hybrid PU truck if I could have found the same truck without it. As it was they gave me the option for $1000 over the same truck without hybrid. So far I like it. Then I only have 346 miles on it in two months.
#330 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is re
Aug 22, 2005 (9:53 am)
quote zodiac2004-"Do you or do you not agree that hybrid technology (internals) has improved significantly over the past few years and are continuing to do so."-end quote
Just because something has "improved" does not mean it was "unstable" before the improvement. Right? right.
And you have twisted my posts all around trying to make me say something I did not intend to say.
My point from the start still remains: In the history of USA car sales, no car lower in the line ever surpasses cars above it in resale value. That will also be the case with Hybrids.
#331 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is re [larsb]
Aug 22, 2005 (10:00 am)
In the history of USA car sales, no car lower in the line ever surpasses cars above it in resale value.
That is a very broad brush you are painting with. I would say just the opposite is true. If you buy a Civic EX for $20K and a Civic LX for $15K. I would bet after 5 years the EX will have lost a larger percentage of that purchase price than the LX. If you are saying the EX will always be worth more than the LX that is probably so. The HCH however is an unknown and the 3 grand premium is not necessarily going to stay with the car when it has 5 years on it.
Your own buying experience should have proven that to you. The EX had not lost as much value after 4k miles as the hybrid. That 3 grand was down to a $1500 premium in a matter of months.
#332 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is re
Aug 22, 2005 (10:04 am)
quote gagrice-I doubt that 10% of the population agrees with that thinking. When I talk to friends and relatives looking for a good mileage car and mention hybrids, the answer is always the same "NO WAY".-end quote
Gary, all that statement shows is that the people you talk to are not properly educated about hybrids. Anyone who takes the time to get EDUCATED about them will see them for the awesome technology and gas-saving home run they really are.
It's going to take time, but it has continually been happening that more and more people are taking the time to understand the technology. That's why more and more models are coimg out and going to come out. The car companies are meeting a "REAL" demand. And with gas prices not going anywhere but up, more and more people are goint to be buying Hybrids.
#333 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is re [larsb]
Aug 22, 2005 (10:06 am)
Where did I twist your posts. Can't you comprehend that I cut and pasted from your own posts.
"STABLE" means "firm and dependable; subject to little fluctuation;". Therefore something in a state of constant flux is by definition unstable.
Your point is irrelevant, and makes as much sense as your logic in expounding how much money you save every month by trading in your avalanche for the HCH.
Let me illustrate if you find my statements difficult to follow :
If your HCH costs 3000 more than an EX and 5 years later sells for a 1000 more, you have LOST an extra 2000 over the EX in depreciation.
#334 of 671 Who the heck cares?
Aug 22, 2005 (10:09 am)
I never look at those charts because they're all speculation. Any used car today is a roll of the dice. If someone buys a used hybrid with 50k miles on it they should get the extended warranty. To bring up ONE example of a problem is very stupid indeed. One needs to look at the big picture. I definitely am glad I bought an extended warranty on my Prius. I sure hope I never have to use it, but at least I have piece of mind. I was going to donate my Prius at 100k miles, but I am going to try and keep it as long as it runs. Now that gas is close to 3bucks a gallon, I just can't get this silly grin off my face. Yup... I love owning a hybrid. I love the exclusivity and I love being arrogant against the naysayers.
#335 of 671 Re: Who the heck cares? [molokai]
Aug 22, 2005 (10:17 am)
I was going to donate my Prius at 100k miles, but I am going to try and keep it as long as it runs. Now that gas is close to 3bucks a gallon, I just can't get this silly grin off my face. Yup... I love owning a hybrid. I love the exclusivity and I love being arrogant against the naysayers.
And we also love you for being the scapegoat for nascent technology, and we will someday reap the benefits of what you paid for.
PS: Even if gas stays $3 a gallon or more, don't get into a dollars/cents argument trying to justify purchase of a new hybrid. You'll LOSE.
#336 of 671 Re: Not exactly off the chart, but you know the mythical 100K barrier is re
Aug 22, 2005 (10:32 am)
Sure, you cut and pasted from my posts, but it was your questioning of my points that led me to say things that were straying away from my basic point, which is that the Hybrids will never sell for less than cars lower in their line. Period.
Tell me again: Exactly what about hybrid technology is "in a state of flux?" Not the individual cars. Not the performance of the individual cars. You can't mean that because the Prius was "redesigned" that put "hybrids" into a state of flux, can you? Because if you say that, then "all cars" are in a state of flux, since new models and new improvements come along as a matter of course. What exactly about hybrid technology is fluctuating, leading to it's "instability?"
Your point about the "HCH costs 3000 more than an EX and 5 years later sells for a 1000 more, you have LOST an extra 2000 over the EX in depreciation" is not really a point. That happens on all cars of a line, just as you pointed out earlier. Just because a Camry XLE sells for $2000 more than a Camry LE when new does not mean a Camry XLE 5 years down the road will sell for $2000 more than a comparably equipped LE, does it? No, but you can bet the house it WILL SELL FOR MORE than the LE.
That's my point about the hybrids - a Civic Hybrid at 100K miles will NOT sell less than a Civic EX at 100K miles "just because it's a hybrid" and the buyer might be worried about a battery replacement. That's just silly.......