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#201 of 671 Re: Although... [falconone]
Jun 02, 2005 (6:12 am)
The 2004 Prius is reliable.
That is what all the hoopla is about. If you buy a new car and you don't have any trouble it is reliable. If it has trouble it is not reliable. Why did JD Powers rate the 2003 Prius better overall quality than the 2004 Prius? Did Toyota get sloppy with their exuberance to build more hybrids? As far as German reliability. This is my first German car since 1967. It is reliable so far and the one trip to the dealer was an excellent experience. Much nicer than time I spent at Toyota. Lexus & Honda dealerships over the last 15 years.
On the subject. I would not buy a German, American or Japanese car at MSRP if I lived to be 100. It is money down the toilet. The odds of finding a sucker like the writer in the LA Times, is rare. It will be too late when they realize what a BIG mistake they made. To pay $18k for a 3 year old car that can be bought new for $22k is crazy. You would not do it.
#203 of 671 Re: Although... [gagrice]
Jun 02, 2005 (4:35 pm)
Statistics speak for themselves and the quality of Japanese cars as a whole are a lot better than German cars. I'd rather own a Honda or Toyota than a VW any day of the week. As for the person buying that Prius for 18k! There are tons of idiots out there.. what can I say? Oh..I read that other post on the other forum... was that you on 405 with your hood open or was that guy kidding?
#204 of 671 Re: Although... [falconone]
Jun 02, 2005 (6:26 pm)
Statistics speak for themselves and the quality of Japanese cars as a whole are a lot better than German cars.
Statistics mean nothing to the guy stuck along the highway with the a dead Prius, BMW, Lexus, VW, Chevy or Porsche. Unless the Japanese got their act together since 1994 when I bought my last Toyota, they were far from reliable. My 4 Chevy trucks since 1988 have been far more reliable.
It would be even worse if you paid a premium for a car that was not dependable. You would feel trapped because you would know you are stuck with a car that was not all you had hoped for. Several of the Prius owners with problems are less thrilled with their car than before it died on them. I consider hybrid premium & problems the price you pay to ride the leading edge of technology.
#205 of 671 Re: Although... [gagrice]
Jun 03, 2005 (4:12 am)
I rather rely on statistics overall. I happen to be lucky when I buy cars. If I bought a GM car, I'd bet it would give me good service as well. All the Prius owners I know (they're well informed) have never had a problem. Bottom line? I'd rather be driving a Toyota than a VW.
#206 of 671 Re: Although... [falconone]
Jun 03, 2005 (5:29 am)
I'd rather be driving a Toyota than a VW.
That is based on reputation or experience. If you drove a Passat then an Accord or Camry you would not be impressed with the driving experience. If your biggest concern is reliability or you like to street race, then you may be on the right track. I just think the whole package presented by VW is better than Toyota. To me handling and braking are at the top of the list. Maybe if I had not started buying Toyota's 41 years ago I would have a different impression of their commitment to quality. I think they are more out to get the most money for the least amount of car they can get away with. Their profit sheet bears that out. I have spent more money repairing 3 Toyotas than all the other vehicles I have owned. Starting from the first 1964 Land Cruiser to the last 1994 PU truck. Toyota's are cheap built. I feel for those that have paid a premium for the Prius. They will more than likely lose a lot of money over the long haul. Not going to have a great TCO.
#207 of 671 Re: Although... [falconone]
Jun 03, 2005 (5:38 am)
You not using Buick's old ad jingle are you "I'd rather be driving a ..."
I agree with you statistics and unbiased reporting: J.D. Powers and CR (somewhat skewed because it is based on actual owner input; more like to complain to to accolade) are the best inputs. However there are always extremes and maybe a single 1994 Toyota PU was a statistically problematic car at the bad, unreliable extreme.
However, I find there is a great deal of good information to be garnered from the Edmund's Auto forums. Sometimes you have to sift through the "i know more than you" or "i am better than you" message drifts or the recategorization on threads, but overall there is a lot of very good actual experiencal input. By the way Falconone thanks for your input.
Cruis'n in 6th ,
#208 of 671 Paying more than MSRP
Jun 03, 2005 (5:39 am)
I'm an advocate of hybrid technology, however, I see some serious problems down the road regarding the cost of automobiles if people are willing to pay more than MSRP for them. A few more moderate gasoline price increases, some favorable PR for Toyota and Honda, some poor earnings for GM and Ford, and then voila, a situation analogous to the housing market will occur with cars (i.e. overvaluation and what ultimately winds up as actual inflation due to "consumer tastes").
#209 of 671 Paying More than MSRP
Jun 09, 2005 (12:19 pm)
The Lexus dealers have an interesting scam going. The $1,000 deposit you pay to get on the list for the RX400h is not creditted to sales price at closing. That fee raises the cost of the car by $1,000 even though technically you are still paying list. It is pretty short-term thinking on their part though. We took delivery on the RX400h but will never buy another Lexus again.
#210 of 671 Re: Paying More than MSRP [bioya4]
Jun 09, 2005 (6:39 pm)
Are you sure that "Lexus dealers have an interesting scam going"? Your experience sounds like it may have been the policy of one particular dealer. It is totally probable that certain dealerships will attempt to milk the market for whatever "Additional Dealer Markup" or "Market Price Adjustment" bucks they can get. However, I would be very sceptical about the widespread nature of a situation similar to your $1,000 deposit experience.