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519 messages, Last post on Jan 16, 2007 at 6:14 AM
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Replying to: Sylvia (Jun 29, 2004 10:34 am) |
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The CR writers list the Prius as getting 44 MPG combined. They tend to be a little throttle happy with their testing though. The 44 MPG still gets accolades from them and are impressed with the 10.5 sec. 0-60 time coming from such an impressive drivetrain... |
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Replying to: terryh2u (Jul 04, 2004 1:14 pm)
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Hi Terryh2u: ___Let me attempt to enlighten you a bit … ___There is a Real Hybrid Mileage Database over at Greenhybrid.com and it would behoove you to take a glance over the various automobiles listed … ___Let me give you just a few highlights as to what can be found there in case you don’t think the HCH and the Insight by inference are not real hybrid’s … 10 Honda Insight’s are posted with 4 beating the EPA combined estimate of 64 mpg. 55 Toyota Prius II’s are posted with just 4 beating the EPA combined estimate of 55 mpg. 37 Honda Civic Hybrid’s are posted with 20 beating the EPA combined estimate of 48 mpg. 6 Toyota Prius I’s are posted with just 1 beating the EPA combined estimate of 48 mpg. ___I am sure more Prius II pilots will begin to achieve the magic 55 mpg number as there are quite a few knocking on the door as of this writing. ___Do you know of any Prius or Prius II’s that have set world records in the last 4 + years? I know of a particular Insight that did just 2 weeks ago  ___Lastly, I have a lmpg more then double that of the Prius II’s CR average so please hold your thoughts about the Honda’s not being real hybrid’s until you see what is actually doable by those supposed non-Hybrid’s. ___Finally, Hybrid’s are achieving the EPA estimates posted if driven and setup properly. There is also a much higher percentage of non-Hybrid pilots that have achieved this task without all the setups and techniques used by us Hypermiler’s. ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes |
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Replying to: xcel (Jul 04, 2004 3:38 pm) |
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Hi Terryh2u: A true hybrid means that a vehicle can run "Independently" on either gas or electric or both. Only the Prius can do that. ___Really? Did you know that a 2000 Honda Insight could travel ~ 1 mile on the pack alone after you have ran out of fuel? Not with today’s latest ECU updates as Honda took that capability away but it can. What does that make it? A non-hybrid? An all electric “BEV” for short? A pure Hybrid? Doing research on the hybrids, everything I have read so far has recommended the Prius over the Honda hybrids when everything is taken into consideration. Why else would Ford and Nissan among others, license Toyotas' Hybrid Synergy Drive system to use in their own vehicles. ___If you would have done your research properly, you would have found that a Prius will never pay for its increased costs by fuel savings alone. Why not consider an 04 Accord or Camry PZEV instead? Larger, safer, better performing, much less expensive, and just as green if you purchase one from any of the following including California, New York, Vermont, Maine, or Massachusetts. As a point of reference, I did check with greenhybrid.com and the Prius still bests the HCH by 1.5 mpg according to them. ___1.5 mpg difference between the Prius II because it is a Hybrid vs. an HCH because it is a non-Hybrid according to you? What is the Prius I since it is achieving just 1.5 mpg less then the Prius II by those documenting their tank data? An also ran? The HCH is classified as a Compact car, whereas the Prius is classified as a Midsize car. No contest there. ___Not only is the Ford Focus ZX3/ZX5 a compact, it is also larger then the Prius II. Interesting point, isn’t it. I believe Autoweek is now classifying the Prius II as a Compact now given the way Toyota designed it around the EPA cabin specs. The Insight may get higher mileage, but it certainly isn't a family car, being only a 2 seater. If you are happy with a Honda hybrid, that's great, that you too are a environmentally conscious person that wants to save our planet. To me though, the Prius is head and shoulders above the others ... ___I loved the part about may get higher mileage. Give the average owner a 5-speed Insight and a Prius II and there isn’t any may about it ___Since this thread is supposed to be about gas mileage, the Prius II isn’t giving its owners anywhere near EPA estimates for most purchasers whereas for greater then ½ of those reporting tank over tank from their HCH’s, it is? In both cases, they offer great fuel economy but make sure you understand the above before making any conclusions about your own research … ___Personally, I would love to remove all the Hybrid HW from my Insight. I would be receiving even more then double what you might receive in your daily single occupant commute in a Prius II. Place a 1.0 L Honda designed iCDTi in her and she would be good for 150 mpg. Even my 03 Corolla LE w/ Auto’s last tank beat most Hybrid drivers last tank … Best practice for fuel economy in a true mid-size automobile? A 2.2 L iCDTi Honda Accord from Europe. Best practice for cleaning the air with low emission standards? Any affordable and available PZEV and not just the Prius II which is slowest car in the entire Toyota lineup available here in the states! Not to mention it is also one of the most costly in comparison to what you can pick up a Toyota Echo, Corolla, or Camry for. Maybe Toyota should place the Corolla’s 1.8 L ICE in the Camry for better fuel economy and ~ the same performance as that of the Prius II? How about placing the 1.5 L from the Echo in the Corolla to match the Prius II’s performance and increase its fuel economy possibly? What about placing the 1.5 L atkinsonized PZEV of the Prius II in an Echo w/ a stick? All 3 would offer even closer fuel economy to that of the Prius II if not better in the case of the Echo but for thousands to tens of thousands of dollars less cost and have similar performance. So what is your point? ___Wayne R. Gerdes
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Replying to: xcel (Jul 05, 2004 12:56 pm) I would have sworn I read somewhere that Honda licensed some part of their Hybrid technology from Toyota. I think it was on the Insight only. That was back in 2000 when they both hit our market. |
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Prius,IMO, is "head and shoulders" above the Honda hybrids - but that is not saying much. Honda is merely dipping its toes, Toyota is up to its waist ! For Prius, Hybrid gas mileage should be better because it offers a more flexible strategic environment, more judicious to the use of electric motors than bolting one directly on the side of the engine as does Honda. But I am averse to the Prius' mechanical engineering solution. It's way too complex and the PSD has dreadful efficiency at low speed where it could be performing better. (Too much power churning.) Fortunately there is a better way. The Series Hybrid offers a path to make serious advances in vehicle propulsion. But are we ever going to see that ? Well, there is hope. Some say that the Japanese have already invented everything. They're just going to give it to us... ......A piece at a time. T2
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Replying to: toyolla2 (Jul 06, 2004 2:24 pm) PSD is way too complex? Differential has at least one Planetary gearset. Automatic transmissions have at least 3 Planetary gearsets. If you are having trouble understand PSD, animation might help.  The car at rest. The wheels(purple ring) does not move. Therefore, the MG1(yellow) is generating electricity. If HSD does not need to recharge battery, it'll just shut down everything. --------------------  Accelerating. Remember, HSD E-CVT do not shift gears. So, instead of downshifting(increase in torque), HSD taps into high torque 50kw MG2. As you can see below, the wheels starts to move and the MG1 is still generating electricity. That electricity combined with the battery power the MG2 to provide 295lbs-ft torque! This set up allows Prius to have smaller battery since MG1 can also generate on-the-fly. For more info: http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyotaPrius/Understanding/Co- ntents.htm "the PSD has dreadful efficiency at low speed where it could be performing better. (Too much power churning.) Fortunately there is a better way. The Series Hybrid offers a path to make serious advances in vehicle propulsion." HSD is series-parallel hybrid design. It has advantages of both series and parallel hybrid designs. At low speed, it can run on pure electric and recharge battery when needed. This characteristic is that of a series hybrid. When more power is demanded, combined effort of ICE and electric motors were put into use. This characteristic is that of a parallel hybrid. Dennis |
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