Hybrid Gas Mileage Good? Bad? As Expected?

519 messages, Last post on Jan 16, 2007 at 6:14 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hybrid Cars, Fuel Efficiency (MPG)

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#53 of 519 Re: [xcel] by prius4meus Jul 08, 2004 (3:42 am)
Replying to: xcel (Jul 05, 2004 12:56 pm) In post 15, Wayne, who has contributed greatly to the lively debate on this site, inadvertently put his finger on what it is that makes the 2004 Prius a special, highly sought after and much beloved (by it's owners) car. In that message, he replies to terrhyh2u's post. He selects 5 issues to reply to and in each one he draws a relevant comparison to another vehicle: 1) "Hybrids running independently": Counter-example: Insight 2) "Rational economy(cost of car-fuel savings)": Counter-example: Accord/Camry 3) "Fuel economy": Counter-example: HCH 4) "Larger Size": Counter-example: Focus 5) "More seats than the Insight": Counter-example: Corolla, Accord etc (with a European car thrown in too!) Yes! Exactly! What most of us (Prius 04) owners love about this car is the whole package: Great fuel economy, low emissions, roomy, greatly enhanced functionality from the hatchback design, plenty of additional safety features/techno-wizardry (VSC, side/curtain airbags/SS/SE etc), Toyota reliability, 7 year track record for the technology, comfortable ride, reasonable handling and acceleration. Sure, you can find cars that "beat" the Prius on any one of these features but we bought ours for the "whole package" and it is outstanding in that regard. As for mileage, I am now over 50 mpg (per tank) regularly. This surprises me since my commute is only 5 miles long - not the ideal distance to demonstrate the true mpg of any car. From looking at this and other sites it does appear that most recent posts report MPG's at and over 50 mpg. For those considering purchasing this vehicle to use in a cold weather climate (Northeast Ohio for me), I think it is reasonable to expect mpg's averaging over 50 mpg for 7 months per year, dropping down to mid 40's for 5 months per year. Of course, this will vary a few mpg up or down depending on your commute (most important in my opinion), driving styles, tire PSI's etc.
#54 of 519 Synergy Drive by djasonw Jul 08, 2004 (4:00 am)
What most people LOVE about their Prius is not only Synergy Drive but the synergies of all the options! You can't get ANY of those in the other hybrids. If the Prius did NOT have package # 9 with all the bells and whistles I'd have looked elsewhere. The mileage I get is just gravy. Not to put anyone down, but before this car I owned a 50k vehicle and could easily get into one again. Just not my thing. I love the Prius! Replies to this message: djasonw (Jul 08, 2004 9:20 am)
#56 of 519 Re: Synergy Drive [misterme] by djasonw Jul 08, 2004 (9:20 am)
You paid 18.5k? You could have got a regular CIVIC for 13k and banked the money! The HCH offers NOTHING over a normal Civic. I paid less than list and have a fully loaded # 9 Prius. Couldn't be happier. Replies to this message: djasonw (Jul 08, 2004 12:58 pm)
#57 of 519 Re: The PSD is complex [toyolla2] by usbseawolf2000 Jul 08, 2004 (10:52 am)
Replying to: toyolla2 (Jul 07, 2004 11:10 pm) "When I said the PSD is too complex, that is what I meant. Your post seemed to infer that I was having trouble understanding it." I did not mean to offend you. I said "IF" you are. If not, then fine. I posted explanation so other readers might find useful. That's all. HSD transformed and simplified the whole car by removing reduntant parts and consolidated most of the jobs into one primary part of the hybrid drivetrain. That part is hybrid transaxle. A car is a very complex piece of machineary. To understand how HSD transform the whole car is not easy. It would not be right to say that Power Split Device is too complex because it is not. It has six moving parts permently connected with ball bearings. To achieve the highest MPG/fuel economy, one will need to understand how each hybrid design is different. "What they should have done was take a planetary box with a 2.5:1 ratio, drive the planetary carrier a la Prius and connect the sun gear to the electric motor" I am confuse if you are suggesting a change for HCH or Prius. Prius PSD has 2:1 ratio for sun:planet gear. When the ICE is at 5,000 RPM, MG1 is at 10,000 RPM when the ring gear is at rest. "The 10 second burst of current would have to be within the discharge capability of the HV battery which may be Power limited." Prius' battery pack is 1.5kWH. If 50kW MG2 were to give 295 lbs-ft torque boost, the battery can last 90 seconds. But then battery ECU would not let the battery drain below 40% SOC, so the driver has 54 seconds of electric supercharger, assuming the battery has 100% SOC to begin with. If the battery has 80% SOC, the driver will still have 36 seconds. Dennis
#58 of 519 Re: WOW [misterme #50] by usbseawolf2000 Jul 08, 2004 (11:27 am)
"Where does Toyota "slap" their motors onto and what gimmicky phrase do they call it?" . It is called Hybrid Transaxle. It is the size of traditional transmission but contains much more functionality such as electronically controlled CVT, electric motors to drive the car, generators capable of recapturing at least 80kW(not 10kW like HCH) of energy, acts as flywheel, replaces ICE starter and alternator, and many more! Hybrid Transaxle "slap" between ICE and wheels like a transmission would. This is what Nissan will buy from Toyota among other things for Altima Hybrid. "All that technical jargon still doesn't explain why HCH gets about the same MPG as Prius as reported by its owners." Please remove your filtered glasses which makes you see only what you want to see. I just met a fellow during Tuesday chat with brand new HCH CVT. He is getting 36mpg and it is summer, not winter now. Most of the low Prius mpg you read in the news are winter before broken in. "If HSD's refined, sensible more complicated system is "far superior" to Honda's simpler "Slapped and bolted" then why the about the same MPG?" Prius is one class higher than HCH, faster acceleration in most(if not all) situations, gets higher MPG, longer battery warrenty, and many others that djasonw listed. "show us where HSD beats IMA in MPG...not by 1 or 2 MPG but by 10 or 20MPG" Compact cars are already very fuel efficient. When a faster and more responsive mid-size car beat a compact car in fuel economy, it means a lot. The difference will get greater when comparing with much larger hybrids between HSD and IMA! Dennis Replies to this message: usbseawolf2000 (Jul 08, 2004 12:48 pm) eaa (Mar 22, 2006 7:46 pm)
#59 of 519 PSD size by usbseawolf2000 Jul 08, 2004 (11:38 am)
For those who believes that PSD is complex. Take a look! This device splits ICE's 72% torque to the wheel and 28% to the generator. The amount of horsepower that split is controlled electronically. Note that horsepower is a function of torque. Dennis