Hybrid Gas Mileage Good? Bad? As Expected?

519 messages, Last post on Jan 16, 2007 at 6:14 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hybrid Cars, Fuel Efficiency (MPG)

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#430 of 519 Re: EPA testing of hybrids [gagrice] by blane Dec 01, 2005 (6:29 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 30, 2005 8:33 pm) Not bad. One-plus tanks of gas in five-plus months. I wish I could do that. Then again, I'd probably be kicking myself for having made the expenditure and not driven my new vehicle.
#432 of 519 Re: Replying to Gary [larsb] by gagrice Dec 08, 2005 (9:10 am)
Hybrids suffer in cold weather I would say it is more the driver than the car. I know of one Accord in Illinois getting close to 48 MPG. That is extreme, yet how many hybrids in Chicago get that kind of mileage. Where was the vehicles in your chart tested. CA and AZ should not have any winter issues with mileage. Unless you are up in the Sierras. After 6200 miles in my TDI most on 2-3 mile trips with the AC running full blast (warm yr in SD) I have not seen a big fluctuation in mileage. 1-2 MPG on each tank difference. So AC on a diesel is not a factor that I can see. Maybe on small high revving gas engines it makes a difference. Replies to this message: larsb (Dec 08, 2005 9:22 am)
#433 of 519 Everyone says that, but I have yet to see the science to prove it. by larsb Dec 08, 2005 (9:13 am)
Everyone who owns a diesel car seems to think the A/C has no effect. I have yet to see a scientific basis for that. Are air conditioners installed in diesels DIFFERENT than air conditioners in gasoline cars? Of course not. Can a diesel car do this: turn on the ACC and run the air conditioner. Does it get cold? If not, then it requires FUEL to get cold. If it gets frigid with the car not started, then it's not using fuel. Gary, try that with your TDI and let us know. From green car congress: "Minimize Use Of Air Conditioning. Unless it’s freezing, or sweltering, keep the air conditioner off (fan is usually sufficient for cool or warm air flow into the vehicle). It is a major fuel thief in traffic, increasing fuel consumption by up to 10%." Replies to this message: gagrice (Dec 09, 2005 7:19 am) misterme (Dec 10, 2005 6:05 pm) gagrice (Dec 10, 2005 6:19 pm) and 10 more...
#434 of 519 Re: Replying to Gary [gagrice] by larsb Dec 08, 2005 (9:22 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Dec 08, 2005 9:10 am) If it's "more the driver than the car" then that means hybrids can get high mileage ANYWHERE, which supports what I said in the first place. The chart in question (which was removed because it was "too wide") was from a car in the Pacific Northwest of the USA.
#435 of 519 Electric AC on Prius by falconone Dec 08, 2005 (9:42 am)
The Prius has an electric AC so mileage hits are minimal. It also doesn't sap power when driving around town. My friend who has a diesel Merc (older model) keeps the AC off as it takes a bit hit on the performance. Hybrids... gotta love them!! So cool.... Still possibly getting mine!!! Nothing else out there has my interest!! Replies to this message: larsb (Dec 08, 2005 10:04 am) falconone (Dec 08, 2005 10:12 am)
#436 of 519 Re: Electric AC on Prius [falconone] by larsb Dec 08, 2005 (10:04 am)
Replying to: falconone (Dec 08, 2005 9:42 am) hey Falcon - tink about dis: "electric" A/C Where does Prius get it's "electricity" from? very little from regen - most from FUEL. So anytime the A/C is running, it is still "in a roundabout way" using fuel. No free lunches..... Replies to this message: falconone (Dec 08, 2005 10:12 am)
#437 of 519 Re: Electric AC on Prius [larsb] by falconone Dec 08, 2005 (10:12 am)
Replying to: larsb (Dec 08, 2005 10:04 am) Very true.. BUT you do not have a power sapping compressor delaying your departure. My WRX automatic with AC was truly a DOG when I put the AC on. Unless you drive a car with a very high HP output, the AC always seems to sap the power. I've never felt this with the Prius. Another nice thing is the silent idle at lights with nice cold aire blowing. Hybrids....gotta love em!!!
#438 of 519 Re: Everyone says that, but I have yet to see the science to prove it. [larsb] by gagrice Dec 09, 2005 (7:19 am)
Replying to: larsb (Dec 08, 2005 9:13 am) Everyone who owns a diesel car seems to think the A/C has no effect. Maybe that is because it is true. While cruising at 70 MPH at 2100 RPMS the TDI is at the peak of it's torque curve. In other words there is a lot more power than is needed to push the Passat down the highway. Unlike the inefficient gas engine that is very weak at lower RPMS. When you turn on the AC at 70 MPH you have to give it considerably more gas to maintain the speed and the AC. Diesel is a superior fuel for vehicles without any doubt. No amount of hype can change those FACTS. Getting back to my original post. I am not the one relating that my hybrid gets 10, 20, 30% less mileage in the Summer and the Winter. Hybrids are just more susceptible to little outside influences. Heat, cold, wind, tire pressure, driving skill, etc. When the emphasis for owning a car is the mileage you get, it becomes a big issue. Also on my wife's LS400. We get 27 MPG on the highway year round. Mostly trips to Las Vegas across the desert. It seems to me the only engines that suffer when using the AC are the small low torque engines designed to get optimum mileage under very restricted circumstances. Replies to this message: misterme (Dec 10, 2005 6:05 pm) gagrice (Dec 10, 2005 6:19 pm) xcel (Dec 10, 2005 9:19 pm) and 8 more... misterme (Dec 11, 2005 2:00 pm)
#439 of 519 spend some time resarching this and get back to us Gary... by larsb Dec 09, 2005 (7:32 am)
quote-"It seems to me the only engines that suffer when using the AC are the small low torque engines designed to get optimum mileage under very restricted circumstances."-end quote On what are you basing that assumption? Gut feeling? It's a FACT that use of the air compressor requires fuel, regardless of the engine size. That's not different in any car. It's a major factor in why the EPA tests, which DO NOT USE THE Air Conditioner, are incorrect for 87% of cars. Diesel torque has nothing to do with fuel used to air condition a car. Did you do your test, Gary, the one I suggested to you? Get in your TDI on a warm day and turn the key to ACC and run the air conditioner. Does it get cold? If not, then the engine must be running for it to get cold. What's the difference you say? Well, FUEL is being used by the air compressor to cool the air. Found a page that says running the A/C generally robs 5% of an engines HP: "If a car has 100 horsepower, the five-horsepower cost in engine power for running the air conditioner doesn't seem that great. However, the same car at cruising speed requires only 25 horsepower at the most. Then, relatively speaking, that five horsepower represents a much larger demand on the engine." Found yet another page that says this: "According to the National Safety Council’s Safety and Health Policy Center, driving without using the car’s air conditioning increases fuel efficiency by about 2.5 miles per gallon." Another: "The common automobile air conditioner uses shaft work of the engine to turn a mechanical compressor. Operating the mechanical compressor increases the load on the engine and therefore increases fuel consumption, emissions and engine operating temperature. " Replies to this message: gagrice (Dec 09, 2005 7:59 am)