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VW Jetta TDI

4747 messages,  Last post on May 23, 2013 at 10:49 AM

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What is this discussion about? Volkswagen Jetta, Biodiesel, Diesel, Sedan

Messages Page 334 of 475

#3331 of 4747 When is TDI worth while? by texasnightowl

Sep 22, 2009 (10:57 am)

Since we have a discussion on diesel fuel costs here...let me ask, when is TDI worth it? I am shopping for a new car. Right now, VW and Mazda are at the top of my list (didn't like the handling of Toyota Prius, Matrix and RAV4; don't like the look Honda Civic or Ford Focus). I'm looking for decent mileage mileage and useable luggage/cargo space (I'm coming out of a 2000 Chev. Camaro).
 
I test drove a VW Jetta TDI w/DSG and liked it (though I think I want a stick). But I'm having a hard time justifying it at a rough MSRP of 24k vs a Mazda3 sedan at 18k or so (or even a Jetta S). I've done some calculations based on my average miles driven per year...under 12k miles (My Camaro is 9 yrs old; purchased June 2000; and is only at 97k miles) and it seems like depending on price of gas/diesel, it will take anywhere from 6.5 to 10 yrs to make up the extra cost. These calculations were based on fuel cost only, not depreciation. (Gas was factored at two prices, $2.50 and 3.50 with diesel factored at 10 cents higher since that is what it is running here now).
 
So, for whom does a TDI usually make sense? FWIW, my commute one way is roughly 12 miles free flowing highway and 2.5 miles city streets/stoplights to get to/from the highway.

#3332 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [texasnightowl] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Sep 22, 2009 (11:25 am)

Replying to: texasnightowl (Sep 22, 2009 10:57 am)
I don't think you can justify a TDI on fuel economy alone, anymore than you can justify a Prius or even a Vespa motorscooter, strictly on "money saved" I mean.
 
 Even a $2500 road bicycle would be hard to justify as a "gas saver", since you'd have to peddle it 24,000 miles to save $2500 in gas over a car getting 30 mpg $3 a gallon. You WOULD be buff, though--
 
Probably the only type of driver who could "justify" a TDI on fuel economy alone would be, say, the extreme case of a traveling salesperson who went from a big SUV to a TDI and who clocks 40,000 miles a year. He could "save" himself $5000 a year.
 
But there is also:
 
driving pleasure
resale value
the "green thing"
possibility of longer engine life
possibility of lower maintenance costs

#3333 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [texasnightowl] by sebring95

Sep 22, 2009 (11:56 am)

Replying to: texasnightowl (Sep 22, 2009 10:57 am)
Well if you throw depreciation out the window....it's hard to justify ANYTHING that's more expensive to begin with. But if you keep your car 10-15 years....then it may not matter. The other side is that if you equip the 3 similar to a TDI...the prices aren't nearly as far apart. It was worth it to me when I had mine because there was nothing with a 4cyl that I cared to drive, so it was comparing V6 gas mileage to the 50mpg my TDI averaged. No problem.

#3334 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [sebring95] by gagrice

Sep 22, 2009 (12:03 pm)

Replying to: sebring95 (Sep 22, 2009 11:56 am)
That has been my experience with the diesels I have tested and owned. To get equal power you have to go to a V6 gas to match the torque of a 4 cylinder diesel. In the case of the Mercedes and BMW SUVs the 6 cylinder diesels are more than a match to the more expensive V8 gassers. I test drove the 4 banger gas Passat Wagon before buying the TDI and there is no comparison. When you do an honest cost analysis with the added $1300 tax credit on the Jetta TDI it is a good buy. Unless you go to a dealer that is gouging due to the shortage of stock.

#3335 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [gagrice] by texasnightowl

Sep 22, 2009 (12:25 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 22, 2009 12:03 pm)
oops...I did forget about that tax credit...that helps. If I have my numbers right, the TDI manual with no options is running 22660 + 700 destination for a 23360 MSRP. Then my tax (3% use instead of sales tax in NC) is $700.80 plus I think around a $75 tag fee (may be a few $$$ less) brings my grand total to $24135.80 ... unless I'm forced to pay for a mat kit too.
 
I do plan to keep the car for 10 yrs (I'm at 9 yrs 3 months on the Camaro).
 
I did test drive a Mazda 3s Sport actually and liked the handling on it quite well, but I need to go back and test the MT instead of the auto. But I prefer the interior of the Jetta and felt like the Jetta had more room in the back seat. Still the Mazda 3s sport can apparently be had under $20k. As could a Jetta S.
 
I don't think you can justify a TDI on fuel economy alone, anymore than you can justify a Prius or even a Vespa motorscooter, strictly on "money saved" I mean.
 
Very true...the Prius is kinda cool, but after test driving it, no way could I own one...it would drive me nuts.

#3336 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [texasnightowl] by sebring95

Sep 22, 2009 (12:59 pm)

Replying to: texasnightowl (Sep 22, 2009 12:25 pm)
I forgot to mention that if I was only driving 12k miles a year....I would not buy a TDI. But I also would not likley buy any smaller economy car either so I might not be the right person to ask.

#3337 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [sebring95] by texasnightowl

Sep 22, 2009 (1:08 pm)

Replying to: sebring95 (Sep 22, 2009 12:59 pm)
If I don't feel more decided between them after driving the MT versions, then I'm just going to resort to a coin flip...something like this:
 
Flip A:
Heads - VW
Tails - Mazda
 
if A = VW then
Flip B:
Heads - Jetta S
Tails - Jetta TDI
 
if A = Mazda then
Flip B:
Heads - sedan
Tails - 5dr hatch
 
 
 
There really isn't a whole lot else out there that interests me...I may take a look at a Ford Fusion, but that is about it.

#3338 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [texasnightowl] by ruking1

Sep 22, 2009 (1:21 pm)

Replying to: texasnightowl (Sep 22, 2009 12:25 pm)
The only thing that really makes (financial) sense for your 12,000 miles per year is to keep your Camaro. You are only at 97,000 miles ? Doing the math indicates 874 miles per mo/10,500 miles per year. So assuming RUG 3 per gal and 20 mpg you are using 44 gals mo *3= RUG= $ 132 per mo.
 
Calculate your monthly payments for whatever interval/car and tell us what they are.
 
Subtract one from the other= monthly SAVINGS by keeping the Camaro.
 
So 874/40 mpg=22 gal per mo for D2 * 2.89= D2= $63.58 per mo. ADD that to the monthly payment of $24,000.
 
Once you put some numbers to it, the answers will hit you between the eyes as with a 2x4.

#3339 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [ruking1] by texasnightowl

Sep 22, 2009 (1:40 pm)

Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 22, 2009 1:21 pm)
Ruking1...strictly speaking, you are absolutely correct...it would make more sense financially to just keep the Camaro...but I am starting to get tired of the repairs going into it. Most recently, the AC, though I really can't complain since it lasted 9 yrs. But that was a quick $1000. Plus the fact that you can't carry anything in it. Now, it's in decent shape...I don't have to rush into a decision, but sometime in the near future, it's time for something else. Will I hate having a monthly payment again after several years without one? Yes. But not having unexpected repair bills for a few years will be nice too.

#3340 of 4747 Re: When is TDI worth while? [texasnightowl] by ruking1

Sep 22, 2009 (4:42 pm)

Replying to: texasnightowl (Sep 22, 2009 1:40 pm)
Ok,
 
1. for the universe that you have narrowed the car choices down to
2. the fact you only do 10,500 miles per year/875 per mo, the TDI diesel fuel equation only makes sense in the context of like models. Or like power, TDI/Camry Hybrid.
3. So really it is the cheapest (gasser) that you like.
 
We chose a Civic :
 
1. it had projected very high resale value
2. 5,436 cheaper than the TDI the time
3. pretty good fuel mileage (38-42 vs 48-52 for a purposeful commute 15,000 miles per year with of course weekend miles.
 
When I did a quick and dirty comparo (depreciation and fuel) over all the costs were SLIGHTLY cheaper (less than 1/2 of one percent cheaper per mile driven (D& F) for the 04 Honda like miles (92,000) than for the 03 Jetta TDI

Messages Page 334 of 475

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