- #2968 of 3757
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Re: civic diesel mpg would be >60 ! [jkinzel]
by jim314
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Jun 23, 2009 (10:52 am)
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Replying to: jkinzel (Jun 23, 2009 10:16 am)
Agreed that the higher density of diesel fuel means that a given volume size of onboard tank carries a larger weight of diesel fuel, but is this really a big benefit? My Volvo V70 gasoline 168hp 2.4L with 5-spd auto has a range of over 500 hwy miles with its 18 gal tank, and my wife's XC90 3.2L petrol 6A will go over 500 hwy mi on its 21 gal tank. Diesel versions of these vehicles available in Europe will go up to 1000 miles, or more under certain circumstances, between hwy fuel stops. That's neat, but not really a major benefit in North America.
I am strongly attracted to diesels, but have never been willing to pay the extra up-front costs. In 2001 or 2002 I almost bought a VW Jetta TDI diesel 5-spd man wgn, but at that time the cost premium over the base gasoline engine was maybe $1500, if I recall correctly. I thought that I didn't drive enough to recover the extra up-front cost of the diesel. Also I was put off by the fact that these diesels emitted fine particulates and NOx at levels much higher than the gasoline engines. I just held onto my 1991 Dodge Spirit 2.5L throttle body injector 5-spd manual 100 hp gasser until 2004 when I gave it away (still functioning perfectly after 16.5 years of ownership by me) to someone who needed value transportation. I got a 2004 V70 as a hand me down from my wife who wanted a new Volvo with dynamic stability and traction control which the 2004 base model lacked.
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- #2969 of 3757
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Re: civic diesel mpg would be >60 ! [jim314]
by Mr_Shiftright HOST
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Jun 23, 2009 (11:01 am)
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Replying to: jim314 (Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am)
I would save $800 a year with a VW TDI diesel averaging 50 mpg (if it could do that), as opposed to my older Subaru Outback.
That's very good but not enough to compel me to switch out, at least not at this point. In the SF Bay Area, we pay considerably more for diesel fuel than 87 regular.
If I bought a new MINI, which requires premium fuel but gets 35 mpg, I save about $450 a year if I buy a TDI.
I'd say I'd need a price differential in fuel costs of about...$1200 to $1500 a year to tempt me.
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- #2970 of 3757
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Re: civic diesel mpg would be >60 ! [Mr_Shiftright]
by jim314
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Jun 23, 2009 (11:16 am)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 23, 2009 11:01 am)
And your Outback is a decent rough road vehicle. I almost bought an Outback in 2004, but couldn't decide which one. I have smacked the underside of my low cleareance V70 pretty good on some rough gravel roads. I wish it had a variable height suspension. I want stellar fuel economy on the hwy, but the ability to go on very rough roads.
On a round trip from Dallas to San Francisco I got 32 to 34 mpg on I-40 through New Mexico and Arizona in light traffic at up to 75 - 80 mph. The orig EPA was 22/30 mpg city/hwy. (No hypermiling but driving with the accelerator and avoiding braking.) My car will run on 87 octane but the manual says that 91 octane is optimal so that's what I use. I don't hesitate to use 89 or even 87, if that is all that's available, but I think nothing about the extra cost of premium. The cost of motor fuel is not a consideration to me. The only thing I care about is the impact of my activites on other people and on the environment.
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- #2971 of 3757
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Re: miles per pound of fuel ! [jim314]
by elias
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Jun 23, 2009 (11:27 am)
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Replying to: jim314 (Jun 23, 2009 10:23 am)
I agree that a big-picture/scientific/long-term approach can be useful and interesting to consider, especially if we have the worthwhile goal of reducing oil imports instead of the scam/red-herring/snipe-hunt goal of reducing CO2 output.
So I think your analyses & points seem possibly related to this question which I think should be of great interest for USA national security, and which President Obama may have Willie Nelson researching right now:
Q: what is the optimal distribution/% of diesel vs gas engines in the US passenger fleet, in terms of minimizing oil imports without causing diesel shortages.
A: Isn't it "obvious" that we'd do better with at least a few % more diesel cars relative to gassers, thus reducing oil imports, and without causing a diesel shortage/price-runup?
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- #2972 of 3757
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Re: civic diesel mpg would be >60 ! [gagrice]
by cosmo
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Jun 23, 2009 (11:57 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 23, 2009 5:20 am)
I could not agree with you more. In addition to our '04 and '06 TDI's, we have a '97 Audi cab V6 (our frivolous fair weather car). While the Audi will get up and move when downshifted and the engine revs up, I miss the torque of the TDI's when passing on a two lane highway or climbing a steep hill. Fuel economy is really just a side benefit of a turbodiesel. Drivability is the greatest asset.
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- #2973 of 3757
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Re: Extended Warranty Price & Cost info for Jetta 2009 TDI? [karthur1]
by ndmike88
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Jun 23, 2009 (4:29 pm)
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Replying to: karthur1 (Jun 22, 2009 7:49 pm)
With the number of miles you put on a year I'm not sure if VW has ANY extended plan that would suit your needs. For the record I bought an 84/60 with a $100 deductible for $1,000. Remember those plans are mostly profit for the dealer, so you have lots of room to try and get it deeply discounted.
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- #2974 of 3757
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Re: Any differences in diesel fuel from the big boys? [ndmike88]
by jogousa
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Jun 23, 2009 (6:03 pm)
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Replying to: ndmike88 (Jun 23, 2009 9:17 am)
Yes, there is a difference. Diesel fuels have different cetane (CN) numbers in different parts of the country, depending on refinery, where they come from (similar to different gasoline that has different octane numbers). Cetane number or CN is a measurement of the combustion quality of diesel fuel during compression ignition.
You can contact any of the "big boys" public relation or consumer help desk and ask them what cetane number is offered in your neck of the wood. Generally speaking, minimum 50 is required - but there are higher CN numbers that are sold by Shell and Murphy USA (60 to 70) in various locations. The higher the better - and you will feel the difference with a higher cetane number!
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- #2975 of 3757
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Re: Extended Warranty Price & Cost info for Jetta 2009 TDI? [karthur1]
by jogousa
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Jun 23, 2009 (6:19 pm)
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Replying to: karthur1 (Jun 22, 2009 7:49 pm)
You should try to get the car for not more than $ 150 to $ 200 over the invoice (see Edmund's charts). I got mine for $ 150 over the invoice (2009 Jetta Tdi SportWagon manual transmission). Every dealer has 3 profit centers: salesperson, sales manager and finance dept. Salesman is just a P.R., sales manager approves the deal and the finance/ ins. dept. that will try to sell you stuff that you don't need, such as extra warranty, rust proofing, etc. You should always remember that the used car lot is the backbone of any car dealership - that is where most profit is made followed by service dept. Dealers generally do not make money on new cars (unless they are high volume dealers in which case they make some extra money through various incentive programs). Do not let your emotions run your price negotiation! Do your homework. The best is to locate a car that you want on dealer's internet website (what they have in stock) then get the exact options that are on the car (including VIN number that you can decode). Check Edmund's pricing and voila - you are ready to go!
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- #2976 of 3757
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Re: Extended Warranty Price & Cost info for Jetta 2009 TDI? [jogousa]
by Mr_Shiftright HOST
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Jun 24, 2009 (7:21 am)
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Replying to: jogousa (Jun 23, 2009 6:19 pm)
I was figuring about $26,000 out the door for a fairly basic sport wagon. Does that sound about right to you?
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- #2977 of 3757
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Re: civic diesel mpg would be >60 ! [jim314]
by jim314
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Jun 24, 2009 (9:29 am)
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Replying to: jim314 (Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am)
Error correction: I kept my 1991 Spirit until 2007 after 16.5 years of ownership.
I have always wanted a Jetta or Passat TDI wagon, but I probably never will get one.
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