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#240 of 606 Re: No, I mean why do I care "WHERE" the car is serviced? [Mr_Shiftright]
Oct 07, 2005 (2:37 pm)
Your points are all valid IMHO except for the first concerning the expected avg gas consumption. I've delivered 50-60 Prius' since the first generation in 2001 and almost to a person the feedback I've received is abt 48 mpg over extended periods such as several months/yr, although achieving 55-60 mpg is a common occurance if all factors are favorable.
The styling, features and performance of the Prius were directed toward the 'early adopters' rather than toward the bulk of the driving public. One comment made in the Wash Post last year was that potential buyers were eschewing the Civic Hybrid, letting it sit on the lot, in favor of the Prius because the Civic just looked like a Civic. The Prius made a statement.. but.. it's not for everyone.
After 5 years of introduction for its hybrids Toyota, with the THH this year and next year's TCH, is going after the heart of the buying public now. It remains to be seen if the mainstream buyer is willing to take the step. However with hundreds of thousands of satisfied Camry owners on its side - not to mention gas prices - it is quite likely that the 2nd phase of Toyota's Hybrid Marketing strategy will be as successful as its first.
#241 of 606 Re: Maybe, maybe not..... [midnightcowboy]
Oct 07, 2005 (3:48 pm)
""Who cares? The battery is warranted for virtually the life of the car. "
Actually, that is turning out not to be completely true"
Your replies are well written but often not based on the facts. I've owned Toyotas since 1990. There are presently 7 in my family. In the rare instance when there has been a warranty question it has been solved immediately on the spot in the dealership. No questions. Last week it was a water pump on my Certified Used Camry with 52K miles. Replaced at no cost. I would be AMAZED if Toyota started weasling on its Warranties for it's Public Relations Flagship Prius. That's just not going to happen.
Regarding the batteries themselves you leave the impression that the entire battery 'might' fail leaving the owner stuck with a massive replacement cost. That too is highly unlikely because as you know the batteries are made of many individual cells. While its possible for one or a couple to wear down over time.... ALL the cells failing at the same time? That's just not going to happen under normal conditions.
Finally on the question of Warranties - in other words Guarantees - Toyota has long had an impeccable reputation for Quality, Dependability and Reliability. Its 5 yr or 60000 mi Powertrain Warranty ( Guarantee ) is based on the well known fact that under normal care and driving conditions you can expect a Toyota engine and transmission to take you 200K miles or more. Having seen this first hand several times on my own vehicles I would expect any Toyota Hybrid to EXCEED it's Warranty period by two or three times without problem. I hardly see Toyota as a company with a gambler's mentality.
If they have put an 8 yr / 100K Hybrid Warranty out there on the Prius at no cost to the consumer it's because they are virtually certain that they WONT have to pay much in Warranty costs during that period. Again from personal experience I wouldn't be surprised if their internal testing didn't lead them to expect upwards of 300K for the battery life expectancy. This is just good business practice.
In the year 2010 there may be a Hydrogen revolution. That would be wonderful. But dont paint a picture of all Prius' dead on the side of the road as all the batteries fail at the same time. That's just not going to happen and sounds like the hope of a 21st century 'flat-worlder'.
Disclaimer: I do sell Prius'. I also own 3 Toyota's and have 4 more in my immediate family. The Prius or TCH will be be my next vehicle.
#242 of 606 Re: Maybe, maybe not..... [kdhspyder]
Oct 07, 2005 (4:34 pm)
If they have put an 8 yr / 100K Hybrid Warranty out there on the Prius at no cost to the consumer it's because they are virtually certain that they WONT have to pay much in Warranty costs during that period.
That is a bit misleading. Toyota did not give that warranty out of the goodness of their hearts. The hybrid warranty is mandated by the EPA & CA.
From Toyota website:
Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Hybrid-related components, including the HV battery, battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter, are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles. The HV battery may have longer coverage under emissions warranty. Refer to applicable Owner’s Warranty Information booklet for details.
California mandate on their website:
Such vehicles are certified by the California Air Resources Board (ARB) as partial zero emission vehicles or PZEVs, and Advanced Technology PZEVs (AT PZEVs) because pollution controls are so tight and the burning of fuel is extremely efficient. PZEVs and AT PZEVs meet the ARB's most stringent tailpipe emission standard (super ultra low emission vehicle), have a 15 year/150,000 mile warranty and have zero evaporative emissions.
#243 of 606 Re: Maybe, maybe not..... [gagrice]
Oct 07, 2005 (5:32 pm)
In their literature they claim the battery should last the life of the vehicle. But it IS true that they do not give this warranty out of the goodness of their hearts. I wonder how it is determined that the battery pack is a component subject to this warranty. I understand that all components relating to pollution controls fall under this category. Regardless, I am eager to see what happens ten years from now.
Oct 07, 2005 (6:42 pm)
There are several gas powered cars equipped as well as the Prius priced under $20K that will get 30's all day. How long would you have to drive the Prius to recoupe the difference in price? Also, the long term reliability of these vehicles is still unknown. Waiting......
Oct 07, 2005 (7:23 pm)
1) Prius is made by toyota...the most dependable car made (except for lexus)
Honda people will tell you they are just as dependable as toyota...expecially the civic...they are right.
2) Prius Hybrids are not new untested TECH...they have been driving around Japan for 8 years now. Honda has had Hybrids for Years.
3) My prius is fully loaded with Power everything a nav. system and upgraded sound (JBL 6 CD through dash and speakers) Air Filtration keyless start and entry (smart Key), Stability Control, fog lamps, HID headlights BLUE TOOTH Phone, Side airbags, Heated outside mirrors Tilt and telescoping Steering wheel with Audio and and climate controls ...(PG 6) Find a car with that equipment and tell me the cost.
#246 of 606 Re: Maybe, maybe not..... [gagrice]
Oct 07, 2005 (7:37 pm)
I didnt mean to imply at all that the warranty was done out of the goodness of Toyota's heart as you stated. More what I was stating is that from a purely business perspective Toyota is not going to put a warranty out there that is beyond the the technical capability of its product. The mandated 150K CA warranty also is likely well within what Toyota already knows is the expected lifetime. Again from my own experience with their products I cannot see Toyota risking its impeccable reputation with a guarantee it cannot back up.
And as another poster has stated this is not 'new' technology anymore. The Prius has been around for almost 10 yrs now. The product is already proven. Its just that most of the world has suddenly discovered it since the '04 model came out.
There are already many Prius' here in the States with mileage in excess of 100K and probably even 200K . To my knowledge there have been no reports of sudden battery/hybrid failures when the vehicles turned 100K or 150K. 3 of my clients put 50-70K per yr on their Prius'. The interiors get worn out but the damn bunny inside 'just keeps on going and going and...'
#247 of 606 Re: falconone [bottgers]
Oct 07, 2005 (8:08 pm)
"There are several gas powered cars equipped as well as the Prius priced under $20K that will get 30's all day"
Your first statement is curious...such as? A compact vehicle like a Corolla/Civic? Its been covered here and on other sites but you need to first state what is most important in your driving experience.
Size of the vehicle?
If you are ONLY comparing gas economy then for sure there are small vehicles like a 2 yr old USED 5 spd manual Echo which will last 10+ years which is a better overall economic decision. Spending $9K for this Echo and getting 37 mpg avg vs $22K for a new Prius which will also last 10+ yrs is a no brainer.
The press focuses on 50-60 mpg but that's not why most owners buy a Prius:
They buy it because it has more room inside, a better ride, nicer features;
They buy it because the styling makes a statement about themselves;
They buy it because if both they and the Echo owner drive 150K miles over 10 yrs the Prius will give off SUBSTANTIALLY less emissions and do a small part to improve the environment.
As Mr Mattox stated there is NO midsize car in the US now priced at $27500 that has VSC, TRAC, Side and curtain airbags, HID, Bluetooth, Navi, SKS and gets 48-51 mpg all the time while improving the environment. That's a no brainer.
#248 of 606 Re: I would love to have a hybrid, but.... [falconone]
Oct 08, 2005 (2:44 am)
...... I gotta agree with Shifty on this one ......
Most drivers are seeing in and around the 40mpg zipcode on the Prius, some better and some worse depending on the geographic area ...... the original warranty was 36/36 until it was mandated to go 100k warranty/150k, so it is an issue - a big issue, and it isn't like the dealers can just reach over to their parts bins in the other room if they need something .l.o.l... ... I think the best analogy was said on the Fox Financial yesterday about hybrids in general .. "If gas went to $9.00 a gallon tomorrow - it would still take you 12 months to retrieve your money back" .......
#249 of 606 Re: falconone [bottgers]
Oct 08, 2005 (3:34 am)
I want the content of the Prius in an under 20k package.
I want vehicle stability control
I want HIDs
I want bluetooth
I want NAV
I want 45 mpg
I want a hatch
I want keyless entry/start
I want AT-PZEV