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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions How do Hybrids work? Newbie questions encouraged! 
139 messages, Last post on Aug 02, 2007 at 5:38 PM
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Replying to: robertsmx (Jan 07, 2005 12:38 pm) . Because I have a brain? It's not that difficult to observe my Insight's deceleration with generator braking is about 1 mph per second. troy
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Replying to: electrictroy (Jan 10, 2005 8:35 am)  What you experience is similar to engine braking in a conventionally powered vehicle except that in this case you're recapturing some of the energy to recharge the batteries. When you apply brakes, the electric generator continues to convert mechanical energy to electrical energy in the background (in a way, assisting your conventional braking effort), again something similar to engine braking used in conjunction with driver applying brakes. |
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You are still missing my point. Let me repeat it: - my insight's regenerative braking slows me at ~1 mph per second - my insight has slid off the road & is about to slam into a pole at 60 miles an hour - do I want to slow my car at only ~1 mph/second? - heck no! I want the old-fashioned friction braking to stop me. I'm perfectly happy with Honda's decision to disable regen & use only friction brakes for the emergency ABS stop. troy
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Replying to: electrictroy (Jan 10, 2005 9:07 am) Pike’s Peak Highway in Colorado is a good example to be brought up here. When you start your vehicle downhill from the 14K ft elevation, would you follow warning signs that ask you to use engine braking instead of applying brakes, or no? After all, engine braking isn’t going to “stop” your car. As far as ABS versus regen goes, the issue is largely with “speed” of hydraulics than anything else. Someday, we should see faster ABS systems, potentially integrated with regen braking. I have already read a few technical papers on the subject. |
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Someone complained that regen is disabled during ABS, and they don't understand why. MY point is that if I'm about to DIE, I don't give a darn about regen. I support Honda's decision to disable it during emergency ABS braking. troy |
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I think ABS is currently applied where it needs to be....right at the wheel. If you were to depend on IMA or HSD systems to pulse the wheels then you are going through differential, gears, bearings, belts and would work against the inertia of all the associated spinning parts and any wear and tear slop that may develop over time. The only way I can see for this to work is to also pulse right at the wheel, which would require traction motors at each axle. I think this could be a vastly better way but we don't have it yet. If you want regen at the same time as ABS, then regen might render ABS useless because the regen load on the wheel might keep the wheel sliding when it should be in its rolling cycle. |
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Engineers may or may not have deliberately disabled regenerative braking during situations where other accessories like ABS or stability control take over. If they did attempt to keep them exclusive, reason could be reliability and effectiveness of the overall system (a situation I can imagine is lack of a good feedback system from the hydraulics based pumps that controls ABS could leave the controller undecided as it tries to switch between motor and generator modes). The other issue may be “automatic”. ABS triggers on loss of traction, an instance where wheel slips rather than rotates (regenerative braking requires wheel rotation). No rotation, no regen. |
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Consider buying a hybrid? Reconsider after you learned about the long wait? Whether or not you chose to add your name to the waiting list, a reporter is hoping to hear your perspective. Please respond to jfallon edmunds.com with your daytime contact info by May 27, 2005. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon Corporate Communications Edmunds.com |
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I originally posted this in "Hybrid Tips: Optimizing mileage", but then found this forum and thought the post might be more appropriate here. I have read a lot of posts talking about how to drive to ensure that the electric motors only are on (referring to the Prius and other "full hybrids" that can drive on electric motors only), and I am a little confused about how that helps mileage. After all, the energy to power the batteries ultimately comes from the gasoline that is put into the car. From my understanding of how hybrids work, one of the main ways they get better fuel economy is by having smaller engines, and by running those engines more efficiently. However, whenever energy is converted from one form to another, I would assume that the conversion is not 100% efficient. If the gas engine was running at a similar efficiency when powering the car as when it charges the battery, wouldn't you get better mileage when the gas engine only is powering the car? I would think that when travelling at a constant speed, and with the CVT allowing the gas engine to operate at peak efficiency, you would get better mileage when using gas only. The electric motor helps mileage by providing extra power / acceleration when necessary while allowing the gas engine to operate at peak efficiency, and also by storing the kinetic energy from braking / coasting. I admit that I am not very knowledgeable about hybrids, so I was wondering if any of the experts could provide me more insight.
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Replying to: shadow11 (Aug 29, 2005 11:31 pm) |
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