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Hybrid Vehicles Honda Civic GX (natural gas) Natural Gas fueled vehicles
353 messages, Last post on Jan 03, 2009 at 6:37 PM
You are in the Honda Civic GX (natural gas) Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: jimcarr3 (Dec 19, 2007 12:56 pm) Just curious, why propane ? it costs as much as gasoline, unless you have a free or almost free supply. If I could find a dedicated propane vehicle meeting california ulev or sulev emission standards, I would buy one myself , but only for carpool lane access.
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Replying to: lakewood90712 (Dec 20, 2007 5:54 pm) Why propane? Because it isn't just about money. Although the ecological aspects of alternative fuel cars are important to me, there is a more practical reason. I have been monitoring the output of the major crude oil producers, and I don't like what I see. Output for all of them is in decline. Meanwhile consumption continues to rise. Most alarming, consumption by the producers themselves is rising even faster than industrial newcomers like China and India. (Saudi Arabia, our supplier of last resort, is in the lead here.) This leaves less and less oil for them to supply to an outside world that is consuming more and more crude. I remember the gasoline shortage during the Carter presidency with long lines just to get to a gas pump and many people in my area not being able to get sufficient gasoline at any price. And that situation was not nearly as serious as what we are facing today. Like most people, my family has to have at least one car that can keep running in such a situation. My ideal car is a plugin electric; but they won't be available for two years at least. Fuel cell cars are out because natural gas is not available in my area. Hybrids, although they use less of it, still need gasoline.
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Replying to: jimcarr3 (Dec 21, 2007 9:07 am) As to PHEVs not being available for at least two years, they are available NOW. The only negatives are that you will void your Toyota warranty if you have one of the Lithium Ion battery packs installed in your spare tire well and will be out $10-$12K. I just had a demo ride in a PHEV Toyota Prius this week. It is the first of 10 PHEV Prius which the University of California at Davis Institute of Transportation Studies will have available for a long-term study of their durability, emissions, equivalent mpgs, etc. The battery pack is 5KWh from Hymotion. During the entire demo for my middle school Computer Applications students (part of their research project on Alternative Fuel Vehicles), the gasoline engine started only once. The vehicle was well over 100mpg on its way to my school and excited my students tremendously. Biomethane is increasingly available in Sweden, Canada has a research facility in Vancouver, and PG&E is working toward capturing methane before it goes to waste and further damages the environment. A PHEV running on biomethane and battery power is my ideal. A serial hybrid, in my opinion, would be more efficient than a parallel with a constant speed CNG generator recharging the batteries, rather than dual duty of recharging and driving the wheels. This would also solve the problem of PHEVs possibly being "dirtier" than hybrids without pure EV mode. More on that when UC Davis finishes their study with the 10 Prius PHEVs. |
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I'm looking to purchase a used Honda GX (natural gas) does any one out there know of a used car web sight and or dealer that sells them please let me know 
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Replying to: rudylhernandez (Feb 13, 2008 3:17 pm) |
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Replying to: rudylhernandez (Feb 13, 2008 3:17 pm) http://www.cngmotors.com/index.php Good hunting. We have enjoyed our 1998 GX for close to 80,000 miles now. |
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| Is well gas, direct from well without the propane and butane removed, ok to run through a refuelling device and run in the vehicle? | |
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Replying to: lee14u (Mar 06, 2008 10:14 am) "Natural gas is a gaseous fossil fuel consisting primarily of methane but including significant quantities of ethane, propane, butane, and pentane—heavy hydrocarbons removed later on as condensate—as well as carbon dioxide, nitrogen, helium and hydrogen sulfide." wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas The levels of hydrogen sulfide present would probably overwhelm the adsorption unit designed to remove the mercaptan odorant in commercial natural gas, and the levels of uncombustible gasses could be significant. You'd never know how far you could go on a fill. Then there would be the problem of the heavier hydrocarbons possibly condensing to a liquid in the tank. But this raises the question of feeding a Fuel Maker with gasified LPG (aka propane), say an LPG designed for a cold climate. What would happen? |
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Replying to: lee14u (Mar 06, 2008 10:14 am) I've personally met a guy in PA who is in same situation as you. He is looking into what needs added (like dryer, etc.) and Fuelmaker to compress the cng. Check into what tax credits are available where you live (in CA, UT, & OK there are state tax credits, on top of Federal tax credit). Fed will give you $1,000 for purchase of Fuelmaker (but only if new). You might consider used Fuelmaker as they are very reliable - - C3 and FM4 would be 3,000 psi models, while newest model is FMQ2-36 which is 3,600 psi model (all these models compress at about 1 gge per hour). Of these, best is fmq2-36 as heads will go 4,000 hours before needing rebuild. I would NOT recommend Phill as only compresses 0.5 gge per hour and quite expensive once you consider rebuild cost of compressor and fact that it only goes 2,000 hours before needing head rebuilt. You could also add a cascade of few cng storage tanks and have your own fast-fill. In helping PA guy with well do his research, found terrific cng user also in PA who has been through all this on his country farm. He's built thorough website that documents his natural gas well being drilled on his farm, and all the efforts needed to get that well gas ready for use in Fuelmaker. Brian actually BUILT HIS OWN DRYER and lists all the parts needed, along with suppliers he used. You can do the same with simple supplies like pvc plastic pipe, etc. See website at: http://littlemetalshop.com/ Also, I would recommend you also join www.cngchat.com which has lots of cng information as well. Finally, see www.cngprices.com which is terrific for locating public cng pumps - - backup to this site is Alternative Fuels Data Center (Federal website) at: http://afdcmap2.nrel.gov/locator/findpane.asp Go CNG !!! Spread The Word as CNG is definitely what is needed all across the USA to reduce dependence on foreign crude oil, AND drastically reduce pollution. Pressure local gas company, cities, post office, transportation companies, etc. to either open new public cng pump, or open a private cng site so that public can use it with just a credit card. Everyone in USA also need to pressure US auto dealers to bring more cng cars to USA. GM has GM/Opel Zafira cng (sold everywhere except USA) ; Ford has Focus cng (sold everywhere except USA) ; Mercedes (various models sold everywhere except USA) ; VW has Ecofuel Caddy cng & recent announcement of Passat bi-fuel (PLEASE urge VW to bring both of these to USA!!!!) For now, best and only car sold in USA is Honda Civic GX (dedicated cng) which has been named Cleanest Car On The Planet for 5 years straight . . I have one and love it!! |
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A really big THANK YOU to you guys, especially you kscng for all the new resources. Jim314, I appreciate you responding also. You both gave my renewed confidence in this forum. Stay tuned - maybe we'll all learn something about the properties of ng. I did purchase a newly rebuilt FMQ2-36 and very close to bringing online - 220 elec and ng supply plumbing now complete. Still dealing with issues of adequate water column and filters. I should have the analysis results back this Monday of the specific properties associated with my particular ng supply direct from well-tap and I will continue to post related info as I progress. Well see if this thread catches a few of us out there on the fringe. Now, on to the research of the material kscng provided. Thanks again. |
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