Last post on Jan 20, 2005 at 9:19 AM
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Volkswagen Jetta, Honda Civic, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Wagon
#408 of 457 Re: Driving style IS important, BUT....... [larsb]
Jan 19, 2005 (12:46 pm)
"That's absolutely true. But it's also true that I drove 3.1 miles after a fillup and got 93 MPG in my HCH cruising at 34 MPH, and you cannot do THAT in a TDI. "
Well for sure I am glad you are not totally in LA LA land.
I would not want to drive 3.1 miles to cruise at 34 mpg especially to inflate my mpg readings. I can get INXS of 65 mpg instantaneous when I lift off the throttle with a Corvette Z06. SO WHAT????
I also think you do a disservice to continually fan the flames of the Hybrid/gasser and TDI adversarial fire, especially when (for folks that want or need it) the TDI would do probably better than a gasser mated to a hybrid. If a TDI (mated to a hybrid) is off 20% of the time due to hybrid technology, then that 49 EPA rated turns easily into 58.8 mpg! As you have pined incessantly: what is not to like??
#409 of 457 I inflame nothing adversarially
Jan 19, 2005 (12:54 pm)
quote ruking1-"I would not want to drive 3.1 miles to cruise at 34 mpg to inflate my mpg readings."-end quote
That was not a MPG inflation drive - that was just the first three miles of normal driving after my fillup, on the way back to my house !! I did nothing out of the ordinary - the speed limit on the road was 35 MPH. I just caught all the lights green for the first three miles and the MPG was what it was !!!
This is a forum for people to compare the values and problems of these two cars. They both have values and both have problems.
Any and all issues we bring up that help a person make the best decision for themselves is valuable info.
I am in the camp which belives the Civic Hybrid is a superior commuter vehicle than the Jetta TDI.
I will give my opinions, my own data, and I will point out important information in the goal of helping people and persuading them to my side.
Nothing "adversarial" in my approach - I do not make personal attacks or make fun of anyone.
Jan 19, 2005 (12:59 pm)
#411 of 457 Marketing for the sake of clean air
Jan 19, 2005 (1:03 pm)
Sure, I think Hybrids are important to the environment in the short term. They will eventually be replaced by something cleaner and more efficient, but for now, they are the best compromise. You could pollute less by buying a Civic GX and running CNG, but that car has a 210-250 miles per tank limit.
Anything that puts less dirt into the air and keeps more money in car buyer's wallets is a good thing.
If we don't buy the Hybrids, the carmakers will stop building them, then we ALL Suffer.
#413 of 457 Re: Marketing for the sake of clean air [larsb]
Jan 19, 2005 (1:14 pm)
Given the inconsequential numbers of hybrids vs 230 M USA registered vehicles, the actual results are almost totally insignificant.
registered vehicles: 230,199,000
miles traveled 2,879,894 M miles (NHTSA projections)
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/PPT/2003EARelease.pd- - - - - - - f
The REAL GAME is to capture the 15-30 and up year engine and drive train technology trends. It is also important not to invest in technology with a limited or dead ended lifespan. (like the ill fated electric cars)You don't even see environmentalists driving these! They were one of the biggest advocates at the time.
No less a personage than the CEO of VW, has gone on record to agree with you or is it you agree with him: on the short term!? short term meaning 30 years or a bit more. His take is off the shelf we have it now in the diesel and he anticipates diesel will be the "GO TO" for the next generation and one half 30-45 years or more.
Honda understands this also. Evidence? The Honda man who invented the VTEC was commission to do a Honda Diesel from scratch!!?? Why do a diesel from scratch rather than continue to buy from ISUZU? WW patent and subsequent licensing rights.
Off topic, BUT:
It was a very "wonderkin" project. I think the concept to market was like 3-5 years!!!
#414 of 457 Re: HCH vs Jetta [misterme]
Jan 19, 2005 (1:17 pm)
"Honda Civic (12,500)"
Why stop at a base Civic?
It's previously stated there are other new car MSRP for under $10K. "
The issue here is/was Honda vs VW? or did we miss something? BE analysis nexus was Honda Civic with Honda Civic Hybrid (same platform? Different engine and drivetrain componentry)
#416 of 457 a few more points...
Jan 19, 2005 (1:29 pm)
"I think it boils down to these decision points:
If you want the greener of the two, buy the HCH.
If you do a lot of 70 MPH hwy cruising or commuting, get the Jetta.
If you want a car that will stay out of the shop better and break down less often, get the HCH.
If you want to be able to drive it like a regular car and still get close to EPA MPG numbers, get the Jetta.
If your commute is short or is mostly City driving, get the HCH.
If you think diesel is the greatest thing since sliced bread (and you know who you are out there) then get the Jetta.
If you like cool new technology, and like to play the "how high can my MPG get?" game, get the HCH.
I think that boils it down to brass tacks. This thread can now be closed. "
Good points. Here are a few more:
If you want to ride smoother and quieter get the HCH.
If you want to use a fuel which is 100% domestic and renewable (B100), get the Jetta TDI.
If you want a car right now but can't afford $20K, get a used Jetta TDI (can be had from ~$8K on up depending on year, mileage, etc.).
I'm not sure what all the fighting is about. I was considering both (along with a Prius and a TDI Passat). They're all good choices, IMHO. I chose a TDI Jetta because I could get a used one for $11K, I drive mostly highway, and I want to eventually run B100.
Jan 19, 2005 (1:31 pm)
Somehow that got mixed in the wrong thread.
Thanks for pointing that out ruking1.
I've deleted the post.