Last post on Jan 20, 2005 at 9:19 AM
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Volkswagen Jetta, Honda Civic, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Wagon
#344 of 457 Re: TDI might win a race, but I'm not racing
Jan 18, 2005 (6:10 am)
> And for overall reliability of the car lineup, the Hondas are way WAY better.
Any car can be reliable if the owner pays attention to the maintenance (you get out of the car what you put into it). Coming from a maintenance background, all of my VW's on average have been quite reliable.
1997 VW Jetta Trek - Bought it at 80K, corrected a check engine light condition by replacing a $150 ignition coil (myself), now a daily driver to work (currently at 125,000 miles) with no problems afterward
2003 Wolfsburg Jetta - 45K miles - no problems whatsoever
1987 VW Golf GT - 16 years, 624,000 miles. Original engine and transmission lasted 429,000 miles. Swapped engine and transmission and continued to drive it until I hit a deer at 55mph.
1975 VW Scirocco - Problems when I first bought it at 45000 miles. Switching the expensive Zenith carburetor with a Weber downdraft and swapping out the points/condenser ignition system to an electronic ignition system transformed the car to a very reliable vehicle which I drive cross-country 3 times. I put another 250,000 miles on it until a tractor trailer hit it.
It seems like the majority of drivers nowadays neglect the maintenance on their vehicles (especially those who lease their vehicles), and when something goes wrong, they complain. A factory defect or recall is one thing (and responsibility should fall on the factory or dealership). But neglecting to do even the basic amount of maintenace on a vehicle is inexcusable. And that goes for VW's, Hondas, Toyotas, motor scooters, spaceships, etc...
Just my $0.02...
Jan 18, 2005 (7:05 am)
"To keep this on topic, which car RIGHT NOW in the USA is cleaner, the Jetta TDI or the HCH?"
Depends where you buy it. In California with low-sulfur gasoline, the Civic Hybrid is cleaner (10=SULEV). Elsewhere, it's a dead heat. Both the Jetta & Civic are equally clean (6=ULEV). Source: www.fueleconomy.gov
(And yes, the EPA included the diesel's particulate/soot emissions)
Jan 18, 2005 (7:59 am)
..."Yes, I would agree. I did the numbers on both the Jetta and the Honda Civics. It would be hard for me to be parochial, I have both the TDI Jetta and the Honda Civic gasser. The reason for me not getting the hybrid was the difference in sales price between a Civic gasser and hybrid. The other reason was the 250,000 mile and above mileage and time horizon. There is almost no way to break even between a hybrid Civic and a gasser Civic in the normal time and mileage. The chances of major repair and higher maintenance repair dollars is far greater with the hybrid than the Honda Civic gasser.
I think the main difference between the two is you do not have to monitor the TDI as much as you do the hybrid or even the gasser. So if you drive either the hybrid or the Jetta TDI going 55-65 mph they both get just super mileage.
Both have been flawless one for 47,000 miles and the other for 5,000 miles."...
There is also a vast quality difference between the Civic (S) and the Jetta TDI. While one can argue the merits of the difference between a 12,500 dollar Honda against the 18,000 dollar Jetta TDI, or even the 20,000 dollar Honda Civic Hybrid, one has to ask is the 20,000 dollar Civic hybrid, which for discussion purposes is different in engine and drive train combination from the Honda gasser Civic: is in fact 7500 dollars better in quality?? I personally know the (buying) answer for me. The first hoop is 12,500 Civic rated at 29/38 mpg vs 20,000 hybrid rated at 47/48 mpg or 7500 dollars. The projected BE given rated mileages is app 450,000 -500,000 miles.
Also, I think the results indicate that Honda has done a better job in marketing and selling lower (but perceived higher) quality and reliability than VW has done in marketing and selling higher quality. An obvious issue with VW is the higher percentage (%) of "higher" quality vehicles having PITA little and major things going wrong.
#349 of 457 Re: [electrictroy]
Jan 18, 2005 (9:02 am)
you can see that Honda has a much better reliability (lack of complaints) than Volkswagen
Maybe VW drivers are more demanding and expect more from their driving machines. I see an awful lot of complaints here on Edmund's concerning rattles and squeaks from the Accord. Yet they never seem to show up on these so called consumer reports. Maybe Honda has a better PR department. Where does JD Powers & Consumer Reports get this information. Of the 20-30 new vehicles I have bought, I was never contacted by either company. I could have given them an earful on several new cars.
Jan 18, 2005 (9:07 am)
This is a testimonial study, which usually are not statistically accurate. Consumer Reports is better but it is still not statistically accurate especially on newer car years. NTSA is better, but it is still not measuring the exact metric of reliability. Even better, is J.D. Powers, but again it looks at initial quality. The only way to get a truly accurate assessment is for a third party to be engaged and select a statistically valid sample of the entire automotive universe. This is easier said than done becuase it is costly and there are so many variables and external conditions that cannot be controlled.
#351 of 457 It's not just JD Power - all rate VW lower
Jan 18, 2005 (9:08 am)
VW has a worse reputation for a reason:
Their cars break down more often.
It's as simple as that - nothing about "VW drivers expecting more" yada yada yada. It's the fact that the VW cars break down more often.
Jan 18, 2005 (9:10 am)
Is anybody waiting for the Brand New 2005 Jetta ( announced at the recent LA Autoshow) that will be available in March 2005 ?
#353 of 457 Re: Again I ask my question? [midnightcowboy]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Jan 18, 2005 (9:15 am)
Folks in our 2006 Jetta discussion are! There's been some confusion about whether the model year would be 05 or 06, but if you're talking about the re-design, that's the place.
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