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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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and now that we are off the name calling, let's get back to discussing batteries.
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 03, 2004 3:30 pm) |
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Replying to: zodiac2004 (Nov 01, 2004 6:10 pm) Prius battery has warrenty for 150K miles in California and New York, etc... Engineers do not design just to last up until warrenty period. They test and verify them to last at least 20% longer than warrenty period. Toyota answered the following: "How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement cost? The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won't be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear." http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20040623 Toyota was suriprise with Andrew Grant because he drove over 200,000 miles(more than Toyota tested) on the classic Prius taxi in 2 years and averaged 48 mpg(US). http://www.toyota.ca/NWS/media/ftp/04gazette_winter_e.zip Dennis |
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Nov 02, 2004 4:59 am) Only Escape Hybrid and Accord Hybrid use HV NiMH from Sanyo. Panasonic EV provides HV NiMH packs for Insight, HCH, classic Prius, 04' Prius, and many other Toyota hybrids in Japan. http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/e_catalog2.html "It also scares me that Toyota is so amazed that a car went 150,000 miles on a traction battery that they bought it back to tear it down and find out why and how." Your statement is out of context from what Toyota said. Read the story at above link from toyota.ca. "Until we see sufficient aging and a representative statistic sample, we don't know what the true liveablity, long term relability of hybrid traction batteries are." 7 years old japanese Prius still running on the road is not a representative statistic? What are you pretending not to know? "One or two isolated cases of high mileage is not a good measure of the entire product." Yup, one or two isolated failures is not a good measure for the entire product either. If HV battery pack is unreliable like you described, there would be so many failures for 7 years old classic Prius battery packs but there aren't. Facts speak for itself, so do FUDs. Dennis |
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Replying to: zodiac2004 (Nov 02, 2004 11:25 am) Not even close. Turbo forces air into the combustion chamber and burn more fuel along with it to produce more power from the ICE. In another word, pushing the ICE to do more work by increasing more stress. Hybrid works completely the other way around. By choosing two opposite powertrains, the stress can be split into two. The benefits created by both powertrains is the synergy effect which translates to more power, less emission and fuel usage. ICE used in HSD does not need to reach high RPM either. For example, Prius ICE output max 76hp at around 5,000 RPM. The real issue is the realiability of the battery pack. Let me first say that all your experiences with battery do not apply to hybrid vehicle batteries. Everything you ever used that had battery utilized battery in a "dumb" way. You fully charge it so that you can fully drain it and repeat the cycle. That behavior damages the battery and consumer electronic NiMH do not last over 1,000 recharges. Since HV battery pack usage is managed and protected by a dedicated CPU (battery management unit), HV packs last a lot(10x) longer! To go into detail, not every hybrid design can take care of the battery pack the same way. HSD can recharge the battery on demand. It is possible because there are two electric motor when one is driving the wheel, another can generate electricity. Dennis |
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Nov 02, 2004 8:27 am) Check your facts. Sanyo doesn't supply HV battery for the Prius. "If the batteries are that reliable then, I wonder why Toyota spent the extra money to make them modular, so they would only have to replace the failing module." Panasonic EV made 7.2V modules to get around licensing lawsuits. Ovonic(I think) only license out NiMH technology to produce small cells. They reserve the right to make large cells for electric vehicle development. One way for Japanese battery manufacturers to get around is to make and sell small modules. Hybrid car manufacturers buy those modules and form a bigger pack. Ability to be able to replace bad modules is a side benefit from that lawsuit loop hole. Dennis |
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 02, 2004 8:49 am) Some people do. They would question why anyone would spent extra for green technology, while for them, spending more $$ for performance is perfectly acceptable. They don't care what comes out of the tail pipe if certain type of engines make great low end torque. They question how long the battery pack would last but not how long the oil supply would last. They would question environment impact of the battery pack recycling but not the whole car itself. They don't question spending $$ for bigger and more powerful car either. They don't care realiability of a car as long as the car is more than they are used to. It is sad but true. Dennis |
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Replying to: usbseawolf2000 (Nov 03, 2004 6:30 pm) Culliganman |
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Replying to: railroadjames (Nov 04, 2004 6:45 am) JUDGE ISSUES SCHEDULING ORDER IN OVONIC BATTERY/MATSUSHITA BATTERY LAWSUIT http://www.ovonic.com/news_events/5_2_press_releases/20011101.htm
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