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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM
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Here is all I could find on the Prius buyback: "The second-gen Prius, sold in the US from about 2000-2003, has not had to replace any batteries. In fact, the best story on batteries is from a cabbie in Canada who drove one of them roughly 200,000 miles. Toyota bought back the car to study it - the battery was still fine." And then on the HCH/Insight story: "There was also the guy with the Insight that Honda was going to give him a new Hybrid Civic. He did not want it. I think they gave him a new Insight for his high mileage old one." That was a contest sponsored by a Honda dealer in the UK. He got a new Insight instead of the offered HCH because it was the vehicle that fit his lifestyle better. And we already had the conversation about upcoming Hybrids earlier in this forum Gary, but here it is again: "Steaming into the future" Chronology of hybrid vehicle production: -- Honda: Insight hatchback -- 1999 -- Toyota: Prius sedan* -- 2000 -- Honda: Civic sedan -- 2002 -- General Motors/Allison: city bus** -- 2003 -- Ford: Escape SUV -- Sept. 2004 -- Chevrolet: Silverado pickup -- Oct. 2004 -- GMC: Sierra pickup -- Oct. 2004 -- Honda: Accord sedan -- Dec. 2004 -- Toyota/Lexus: RX400h SUV -- early 2005 -- Toyota: Highlander SUV -- early 2005 -- Saturn: VUE crossover SUV -- 2006 -- Nissan: Altima sedan -- 2006 -- Chevrolet: Malibu sedan -- 2006 -- Mercury: Mariner SUV -- 2007 -- Chevrolet: Tahoe SUV -- 2007 -- GMC: Yukon SUV -- 2007 -- Ford: Fusion sedan -- 2007 * substantially revised in 2004 ** diesel-electric hybrid. Sources: Booz Allen Hamilton, Chronicle research
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 02, 2004 7:50 am) I have not forgotten this projection. And that is all it is. Only four useable vehicles are on the market as we speak. None of which can you go to your local dealer, test drive and buy. Maybe an Insight, which I consider the cream of the crop for practical high mileage commuter cars. The Bus is great but not something I would buy to drive to the store. The GM offerings are only being offered to fleet buyers, with no plans to put them on the open market. If Honda makes their Dec 2004 rollout that will be 5 with only two possible in 2005. Not what I consider a choice of vehicles. My point was by 2006 ULSD will be mandated in all 50 states. Honda, VW, Mercedes, BMW and who knows them all, have diesel cars available and being sold in Europe that have PM filters and meet Euro4 emission standards. If they keep up with the demand in Europe we may get a chance to buy them in the states. We can only hope that we are not dependent on hybrids for our only choice in high mileage vehicles. |
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 02, 2004 7:50 am) " " "The second-gen Prius, sold in the US from about 2000-2003, has not had to replace any batteries. ..." WOW ,all I can say is that is incredible. NO battery replacements at all! Maybe that is why Sanyo has limited supply, because they make lifetime batteries . If so, there is not market for replacement. It makes one wonder what they do with the recovered traction batteries from a wrecked/totaled Prius since they are still good. If the batteries are that reliable then, I wonder why Toyota spent the extra money to make them modular, so they would only have to replace the failing module. Ker-Chunk Ker-chunk .. Brain thinking .. Let;s see the current date is 2004 so that means a 2000 car would be at most 5 years old with an average mileage of 15,000 a year would be maybe 75,000 miles. But wait the battery warranty is 8 years or 100,000 miles ( 10 years 150,000 for AT-PZEV). EVEN THE 2000 CARS HAVEN"T GOT PAST THE HONEYMOON (i.e. warranty) PERIOD!!!!!!!! We don't know what the battery life is or will be!! I wonder how long the first cromagnum man thought a fire would burn ? P.S.- There was one guy that had his car damaged by an aftermarket installer and had to have his battery replaced. So In my limited access to Prius users, there has been at least one replacement. And 1 is greater than zero! YMMV, MidCow
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Nov 02, 2004 8:27 am) I actually did not say that. I cut that over from another website. And I wasn't quoting it for that section, I was quoting it for the reference to the 200K Prius that was sold back to Toyota. I have no idea how many 2000-2003 Priuses have had batteries replaced, but I'm sure the number is greater than Zero. I was in no way insinuating that battery failures and replacements will not occur over time. That would be a ridiculous assumption, and someone with half a lick of common sense would not expect "no failures" in any component in any car. But remember: Prius batteries are expected to and designed to go 150K before replacement. And they come with the 8 yr/80K warranty. So Toyota seems pretty sure they have a solid component there, eh? And as far as battery life, does anyone have ANY REAL EVIDENCE that these batteries are failing before 150K? Sure, there are isolated incidents of batteries being replaced, like ANY OTHER CAR PART, but there is still no VALID REASON to DOUBT that you can get 150K out of the batteries. Why doubt it? Toyota makes great cars, and has BILLIONS of miles driven on their cars. If their engineers say 150K is a good lifespan for the battery pack, WHO ARE WE to doubt their engineering expertise?
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 02, 2004 8:49 am) The brochure for the Prius says 8 yr/100K. jprice
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Replying to: jprice (Nov 02, 2004 2:04 pm) "Look! Here comes that guy with that silly steam-powered automobile. Quick! Pull the old gray mare over before he explodes next to us(like maybe a battery?)." Those first cars were looked upon as so many crazy mechanized monsters that scared everyone except those brave "foolhearty" pioneers. Some thing just never change. I so glad I'm GREEN and also adventursome. Don't you wish everyone was? Culliganman (tasting the hybrid waters)
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That's one of the good things about these forums - sometimes people can come along and in just a few words "summarize" a point of view and point out the folly of another. Great point about how pessimistic, irrational, unfounded "fear of the unknown" is rearing it's head in the battery issue....
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Replying to: larsb (Nov 03, 2004 2:24 pm)
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Replying to: zodiac2004 (Nov 03, 2004 3:12 pm) "One that is made to bear the blame of others." I think maybe you mean Guinea Pig: "A person who is used as a subject for experimentation or research." Yes, we are experimenting with the 150K life of the batteries...... 
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and now that we are off the name calling, let's get back to discussing batteries.
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