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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM
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This is from a Hybrid specialty repair shop in San Francisco that replaces a lot of Prius batteries. Based on experience within our walls and in discussion with technicians across the country, we can fairly call Gen 1 Prius battery failures “common” and even “predictable.” The youngest we’ve seen served 130,000 miles, some make it past 200,000 miles. Overall we’ve found 150,000 miles a reasonable expectation of how long the packs will last. What the car needs is a new high voltage battery. There are three potential approaches: 1.) Replace the battery with a new one from Toyota Despite prevailing rumor, new battery packs from Toyota are not unreasonably expensive. While they are a significant financial investment, they can be expected to last as long as originals, as they are brand new and OE grade. Given increasing number of Gen 1 battery failures, OE replacement packs are often backordered. Expect to wait 10-14 business days for delivery from Japan. Installation: $600 New Battery Pack: $2,499 Tax: $212.42 Total: $3,311.42 http://lusciousgarage.com/index.php/blog/gen_1_prius_battery_failure/ This shop works on hybrids that are out of warranty. So they will have no solid figures on warranty battery replacements. I would say Toyota did their engineering well to have the batteries last the limits of the warranty.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 15, 2009 6:17 pm) Second generation Prius batteries are similar to the Gen 1’s design but chemically much improved; we have never seen a Gen 2 pack failure in our shop (though we have many cars with mileage exceeding 300k) and have only heard of a few isolated cases from dealer techs across the country. (These failures have been blamed on contamination during manufacturing and show up early in the car’s life.) To be fair, the Gen 2’s battery control software is also improved, which also accounts for extended pack life. Gen 2 Prius are far more common and used parts are much easier to obtain. The Gen 2’s modules are the same individual voltage (7.2) but fewer in overall number (28, for a nominal voltage to 201.6), so it takes two Gen 2 packs to build one replacement for the Gen 1. This also takes more labor. But the good news is that these packs can be purchased used for much less than the Gen 1’s and can also be expected to last as long as new ones, if not longer. (Pic of Carolyn working on a Gen 2 pack) You can even replace Gen 1 battery modules with Gen 2 battery modules. That's very cool. |
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Could gen 2 packs be used to power regular all electric ev? thanks
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Replying to: Inventor (Jan 16, 2009 8:40 am) |
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Tell me the less $$ options , thanks. We found that that some ev cars like Zap Xebra Pk for instance , can go 25 miles (albeit at 45- mph) on just 6 high capacity 114amphour lead acid batteries. The prius 04+ packs have really just 28 modules weighing 1.04 kg each =~64lbs so 6 of them would 384 lbs. We were thinking that 6 packs could be used to replace the zap batteries and could double the mileage? What say you? FYI: High Capacity lead acids weigh about the same , and are a little less volume than prius batteries. The power in the 28 modules is slightly less at 104 amphours (7.2v x 6.5 ah x 28 = 1.32 kwhrs vs 12v x 114ah = 1.368kwhrs). Obviously the prius batteries lifetime is much greater being NiMh which is the only advantage / value in them. (The ev1 and rav4 ev nimh large format batteries are a differnent animal with much higher power density than prius prismatic types).
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| oops. mean to say replace only for same 25 miles range. | |
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Replying to: Inventor (Jan 17, 2009 10:12 am) |
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My pastor friend with the new 2009 Prius has a real problem. He was planning to take his new Prius to Hawaii where he will be ministering for at least two years maybe 4 years. Toyota leasing will not allow him to take it out of CA for more than 30 days. He can store it and take a chance the battery will be ruined in two years. Take it and not be able to register in HI, or just let it go back to Toyota leasing and mess up his credit. This would not be an issue with a non hybrid. It could be put in storage and not have a problem with not running for two years. Toyota leasing is not very receptive either. Something people should consider if you plan to lease. I always considered leasing a rip-off. Now I am sure of it. NO one wants to finance what is owed. He would have to come up with $8k to refinance. Any suggestions. I told him to leave the FOB on the seat in a bad part of town. I got a sermon for that idea. PS He loves the car and was looking forward to having it on Maui to save on gas. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 02, 2009 5:58 am) Tell him to convince Toyota to let him take it to Hawaii. It does not hurt them one iota. They still get their money, and I bet they lease cars in Hawaii. He could cancel his "California lease" and get a new "Hawaii lease" when he gets there. Kinda silly to blame the hybrid technology. If it was an Avalon, Toyota would not act any different. |
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Replying to: larsb (Apr 02, 2009 6:09 am)
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