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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
635 messages, Last post on Oct 07, 2008 at 6:27 AM
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GM seems to have done a far worse job with their little piddly battery than 'Yota has done: GM battery on the leaky side? With gasoline at $4 a gallon and the Toyota Prius flying out dealership doors, General Motors' mild hybrid vehicles are stuck in neutral because of battery-pack failures. GM had to use 9,000 battery packs to replace leaking ones it recalled, a company spokesman says. GM diverted those batteries from new hybrids for sale this year. GM planned to sell about 27,000 mild hybrid vehicles this year, possibly more given the sharp rise in gasoline prices. But insiders say GM will fall far short of that goal because of problems with its Michigan-based battery maker, Cobasys, a joint venture of Chevron Technology Ventures and Energy Conversion Devices. GM discovered an internal leak in the nickel-metal hydride batteries that Cobasys made for GM's 2007 model hybrids. The leak caused the hybrid powertrain to shut down. The vehicles could still be driven, but not with the hybrid system. The vehicles affected were the 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line and Saturn Aura Green Line hybrids. A GM spokesman says the company recalled about 9,000 vehicles to replace battery packs. That slowed the launch of the 2008 Saturn hybrids and the new Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid. Custom-built batteries Cobasys' batteries are specifically designed for GM's mild hybrid system. That means GM cannot switch suppliers until it brings out the next generation of mild hybrids in 2010, a source familiar with GM hybrid engineering said. GM initiated the recall in late December when it began receiving reports of battery failures. Cobasys halted production for at least a month while it fixed the problem and revalidated the batteries, a GM source familiar with the mild hybrid program said. "I don't know how many hybrids we could have sold, but we would have had at least 9,000 more batteries for the pipeline," GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said. "It's not an insignificant number, but it's also part of what happens with a brand-new technology." Repeated calls and e-mails to Cobasys were unreturned. But a person who answered the phone at the company's Springboro, Ohio, plant said production had resumed. And the GM source said the automaker is now getting the batteries it ordered.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 30, 2008 9:38 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 02, 2008 12:59 pm) Toyota says its out-of-warranty battery replacement rate is 0.003 percent on the second generation Prius that debuted in the 2004 model year. And of those 2nd gen Prii sold how many batteries are out of warranty. That is a typical Toyota play on words. I would be surprised if 5% of the Prius sold are past 100,000 miles, the normal warranty. None have reached the 8-10 year. The oldest gen 2 Prius is not 5 years old yet. If Toyota wanted to be honest with their customers they would say how many batteries they have repaired or replaced in or out of warranty. They are too slick to do that. It would cause a panic in the hybrid market.
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 02, 2008 1:01 pm) Again, it was stated in your link with half truths about hybrid batteries. I can attest to the fact that a GMC hybrid PU had very good resale. I only lost about $3000 owning it for 2 years. Not great in my book but I did get rid of it before anything quit working.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 02, 2008 5:40 pm) Some people buy Priuses for business travel and put 35K miles on it a year. Someone who bought one outside a CARB state could be out of warranty in 3 years easy. And your definition of "being honest with it's customers" flies in the face of the reality of marketing. As a manufacturer, you don't EVER intentionally point out things you have done wrong or problems that your vehicles have had. From a marketing standpoint, that's just a Big Ole DUH.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 02, 2008 5:59 pm) And can you point out a "half-truth" in that article for me? I missed them I guess......
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 03, 2008 6:07 am) 76,000+ miles in 30 mo's and running strong here. Resales? Real life situation. With the Prius being sold out across the country again, for the 4 time out of the 6 yrs it's been out, two people this week asked me if I wanted to sell them my 2005 with 76000 miles ( but then what would I drive 150 mi / day? ). At $18000 they said no...but at $16000 they both were interested in the 3 y.o. standard model with 5 yrs of mileage in it.
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Replying to: larsb (Jun 03, 2008 6:09 am) Only pointing out the one in every hundred batteries replaced on out of warranty Prius. How many were out of warranty? Those figures are all so easily twisted to look good. Unless we know how many of the batteries have been replaced total we know very little about the reliability of the batteries. How many after 5000 miles or 30k miles. Like you say it would be crazy for Toyota to be honest about failures until they are forced to by a recall.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jun 03, 2008 6:27 am)  Not the average driver. If the 15k mile average carries over to the Prius, most owners are not close to being out of warranty on the battery. The oldest 2nd gen Prius is just past 4 years and 8 months. If I remember correctly they were in very short supply for the first couple years. So most of the Prius on the road today are under 2 years and 30K miles. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 03, 2008 1:52 pm) I'd have to say, and so would YOU, since you frequent these forums, that if there were a lot of them being replaced with that mileage, WE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT !! The owners would be posting that in the forums, reporting it to news agencies, and to NTHSA on their complaint website. I'm going right now to look at complaints about battery replacements by owners and I will post again when I have data. |
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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
