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Hybrid Vehicles The Great Hybrid Battery Debate
669 messages, Last post on Apr 06, 2009 at 2:32 PM
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 24, 2008 9:24 pm) That link from Edmunds was a restatement of an off the wall article by some writer in Europe with no connection to Toyota at all. All the hype you read was supposition by various 'experts' and pundits, primarily in Europe, on what the next one might be. Officially it's not even due out this year. Literally we don't have a single word on it.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 24, 2008 10:50 pm) |
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A reporter is hoping to talk with hybrid owners who have had to replace the hybrid's battery. Please respond to ctalati edmunds.com before Friday, May 16, 2008 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon Corporate Communications Edmunds.com |
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This has a lot of good info: Hybrid Battery Despite eBay's booming battery bazaar, Toyota, Honda and Ford all say hybrid battery failures are extremely rare. Out of more than 100,000 Honda hybrids on the road, the automaker says fewer than 200 have had a battery fail after the warranty expired. Honda, like Toyota and Ford, covers the cost of battery replacement for the first 100,000 miles in most states and 150,000 miles in California and a few other states with tough green car laws. Toyota says its out-of-warranty battery replacement rate is 0.003 percent on the second generation Prius that debuted in the 2004 model year. That equals about one out of 40,000 Priuses sold, says Toyota spokesman John Hanson. That's a vast improvement over the first generation Prius, which had about 1 percent of the batteries fail after the warranty expired. Hanson says today's Prius batteries are designed to last "the life of the car," which Toyota defines as 180,000 miles. (Toyota and Panasonic announced Friday that they will build a new $200 million factory to produce more hybrid batteries to meet the automaker's goal of selling 1 million gas-electric cars a year.) For those unlucky few who have to replace their own batteries, the cost is coming down. On June 1 Honda is slashing the cost of its batteries from $3,400 (excluding installation) to as low as $1,968 on an Insight or as high as $2,440 on an Accord hybrid. Toyota also plans to substantially cut battery prices, which now stand at $3,000 (excluding installation), down from $5,500 on the original Prius. Both automakers attribute the price cuts to improved technology and lower production costs. But some analysts think Toyota and Honda are really trying to get ahead of consumer concerns about battery replacement. "PR is a very important factor in the hybrid market," says J.D. Power's Omotoso. "Honda and Toyota have the oldest hybrids on the road. And when a hybrid gets to be that old, you have to factor battery replacement costs into your purchase decision."
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Replying to: larsb (May 29, 2008 6:15 am) Used Prius for sale, BYOB (bring your own battery)  It is good that Toyota and Honda are fessing up to the dead batteries after warranty. I would still like to know how many they have replaced while under warranty.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 29, 2008 4:36 pm) |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 29, 2008 4:36 pm) "What's ANY car worth that has 180K - 225K miles on the ticker?" I know what the answer is, I see it every week. It's worth less than $300. No moron is going to put a $2000 or $3000 or $4000 battery or a tranny or any other major repair like that into a vehicle that's worth only $300. This discussion always deteriorates into the absurd. If the hybrid battery only goes 327,459 miles....How many angels can fit on the head of a pin? The batteries don't break down except in the nightmares of the 'flat worlders'. The rest of us just drive them til we want to get rid of the vehicle. That's reality.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (May 29, 2008 9:26 pm) I'm not the one that posted the reality that Toyota and Honda had both SOLD replacement batteries to hybrid customers that were not covered by warranty. That means they felt it was worth the money to go a little further with their hybrid. We have had Insight owners complain of deteriorated batteries that Honda refused to change under warranty. If you are not part of the 1% of the Prius owners that have drawn the bad battery, you are one of the lucky 99%. To you a vehicle is worn out at 150K miles. To me that would never happen. I am close to 95k miles on our 19 year old Lexus. If we had to replace a battery we would be unhappy with Lexus. It is still running good. I doubt any of the hybrids will still have all their original power train including battery after 19 years. Almost 5 years now on the current Prius. The first one was a gimme and part of the R&D.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 30, 2008 12:29 pm) I don't know of any Honda refusals of warranty battery replacements. If it was under warranty, Honda was LEGALLY REQUIRED to replace it, if replacement was the technical remedy. And there is no where near 1% of the Prius owners with a "bad battery." It's no where near 10,000 Priuses with battery problems. That would have been trumpeted from the highest buildings/mountains by all of 'Yota's competitors if it was that frequent. And you yourself have mentioned the multiple thousands of dollars you have spent keeping that Lexus of yours running. What would have been the difference if the thousands had been spent on a new battery or on whatever you really did spend it on? Nothing, that's what !! No DIFFERENCE AT ALL!! Thanks for bringing out the point that a replacement battery on a hybrid is just another maintenance cost, like replacing the tranny. And like others have said - a battery losing charge capability does not DISABLE a Prius - it just means the hybrid drivetrain contributes less to the propulsion, and the car will get worse gas mileage. I can't wait until a few more years pass and I get to tell/show you how wrong you have been about hybrids and longevity. Already been 10, almost 11 years now, and we are not hearing about droves of Priuses sitting dead in junkyards, are we? NOPE, and we never will.
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Replying to: larsb (May 30, 2008 2:21 pm) Well there were two Insight owners at least that posted their Insights were losing ooomph, indicating a deteriorating battery. The Honda dealers in both cases would not replace them because they had not failed to a certain point. Whatever that may be. And there is no where near 1% of the Prius owners with a "bad battery." You posted that statistic NOT me. As far as the cost of maintaining our Lexus in top condition. That was purely a dealer over charging for insignificant repairs in many cases. Before my wife and I were married. When they tried that crap with me I found a great independent shop. I believe total maintenance over the 19 years is about $18k. Several $1000 routine checkups and oil changes. The Lexus dealer she bought the car from does not treat customers fairly. The car's engine and transmission is all original. The only major parts were suspension related. I stand with my statement. I do not believe ANY hybrid battery will last 19 years. For those of us that do our part to conserve by keeping a car a long time the hybrids are probably not a good option. That being the reason I prefer diesel. The simpler the better. I have a line on a 20 year old diesel Land Cruiser in Canada. That is legal you know. PS If you want to count the 9 year old Prius. We can bring up multiple problems they have encountered including MANY battery failures. |
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